Will: [00:00:00] Knock, knock,
knock, knock. Hi. Hello. Welcome to Knock, knock. Hi, with the Glock Flecks. I am your host, will Flannery, also known as Dr. Glock and
Kristin: Plein. And I am also your host, Kristen Flannery, also known as Lady Glock Plein.
Will: How’s everybody doing? How are you doing? I’m doing good. How are you doing? Did you, have you noticed?
Um, I, I put a new, uh, little prop
Kristin: in our, in our Yes. I did notice our background here. Sadly, I did not notice until we were already recording, and so there was nothing I could do about it.
Will: Yes, yes. So every so often, you know, I I, I came up with these like silly little visual gags in my videos. Like either, like it’s, uh, the mission statement for Aetna that just says Be, be evil.
Uh, that I’ll, you know, put in a, like a [00:01:00] frame and, and put it somewhere and then put Kristen finds it like, uh, later cuz I leave it around. Yeah. Like in our, in
Kristin: our laundry room above the door and I can’t reach it, which is why it’s still there. There’s a sign you’ve even forgotten you put that there. Oh. Oh.
The, um, ortho correctional
Will: something. Oh yeah, that was when it was, or, or, uh, oh, I forgot what, how I worded it, but, Basically it was like a timeout room that radio, the radiologist, uh, made the orthopedic surgeon go to because he kept not providing clinical history on his imaging orders.
Kristin: Mm-hmm. And so, and I don’t know how many months ago you filmed that video and that sign is still hanging there above our
Will: laundry room.
Yeah. I put it up there pretty high up. I haven’t, I can’t, can’t get it. Haven’t seen. Okay. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll go remove it until I forget that I told you I would remove it and then I don’t remove it how it always goes. But we do have, I just, uh, posted a video, um, I introduced the interventional radiologist.
Mm-hmm. Speaking of radiology and I did a little like visual gag where I like [00:02:00] photoshopped us in front of the Eiffel Tower of me wearing my makeshift. Lead, which is actually like bath towels that I wrapped
Kristin: around myself and like bright colored. Yeah.
Will: Different color. And I put it in a frame, uh, so that I could like, you know, feature it in the video.
And I, I put it on our background here so you could see it the whole episode if you’re watching this on YouTube. So go if you’re, if you’re interested in seeing that. And some of our other props, we got, uh, I got my, our, uh, nephrology water bottle there, uh, the Jonathan Prayer Candle. Uh, uh, and, and I don’t know,
Kristin: I’ve got some other stuff.
I, I’m very intentional about my decorating. And so when you say you like to put things there to surprise
Will: me Yeah. You like it. It’s like a
Kristin: little gift. Yeah. Yeah. It’s so fun. I, I like it. Enjoy when, enjoy. I have everything. Enjoy just the way I want it all meaningful and in a purposeful place, and then it just changes randomly.
I love it. Could, I
Will: could exchange it with a, a, a framed photo of, of the orthopedic surgeon if you’d like. [00:03:00] We already have a framed photo of the neurologist.
Kristin: It was the, it was the Neur neurologist right there. You’ve covered up the neurologist.
Will: Oh, no, no. The neurologist is down further
Kristin: below. Oh, well that was Jonathan.
See, you’re moving all my stuff. You’re just moving everything. Oh, I, you’ve got all sorts of Easter eggs back here. Everything placed back here is meaningful in one way or another. So there’s a little Even the pressure
Will: for people. Yeah. Even the plant. Yeah. Um, alright. Well, should we talk about our guest?
Yes. Let, let’s do it. I think I’m, I’m excited because it’s a neuro neurosurgeon. Yeah. Fun. I was a little bit nervous just for on my own. Um, side of things just because to talk to a
Kristin: neurosurgeon. Yes.
Will: Mm-hmm. Because, because they’re much smarter than you. Well, that’s, that’s absolutely true. But also I make fun of neurosurgeons a lot on social media.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: that’s true. But, uh,
Will: but all in good fun, all good nature. Absolutely. And, and he, he loved it. He loved the videos. Uh, that, that’s the thing which I talk about with surgeons is they, they can for the most part, all laugh at themselves, [00:04:00] and I appreciate people that have a good sense of humor. And can engage in a little self-deprecation from time to time.
Yeah. It’s a lovely quality to have as a physician, as, as anybody really. Uh, but our guest is Dr. Oren Gottfried. Uh, he is, uh, the professor of neurosurgery and orthopedics and clinical vice chair in the Department of Neurosurgery at Duke. It’s
Kristin: an interesting combo. And, uh, before we talked to him, I was like, how do you become, you know, where do neurosurgery and orthopedics overlap?
To me, that’s, but exactly the
Will: spine. Yep. I discovered that. Cause I know, like orthopedic surgeons and neurosurgeons both do like some of the same I know. Stuff. Spinal work. Mm-hmm. Do they fight over it? I don’t know. Hmm.
Kristin: Good question. There’s a video
Will: for you maybe become like, kind of like both, like he does, I don’t know.
Yeah. Uh, and I, he, he did train in both, but, uh, I, I,
Kristin: yes. He did a neurosurgery residency. Yes. And then two separate
Will: fellowships. That’s right. One in spinal oncology and one in, uh, [00:05:00] A spinal deformity orthopedic surgery. Yep. And so a very. Educated, well educated and accomplished individual in addition to all the academic things he does in neurosurgery, including like research, numerous research, uh, or publications.
He’s also a Lead T medical consultant.
Kristin: Yes. That was really interesting to talk to him about how all that works.
Will: So if you’ve ever had questions about, if you’ve thrown the remote at your television Yeah. About how your favorite show, uh, you know, came up with some medical thing or did something. He talks a little bit about that.
He talks about how he got started. Mm-hmm. In, uh, consulting for medical TV shows. Siberia is involved that world a little bit. We talk to all kinds of different things. Yeah. But, um, very fa fascinating, uh, look into the world of medical entertainment. Yes. And so, um, as someone who dabbles in, in entertain, trained to entertain people and medicine [00:06:00] ways, uh, I really thoroughly enjoyed it.
Uh, so let’s talk, uh, let’s get into it, shall we? Let’s do it. And actually, I stopped just listening to myself talk. Mm-hmm. And actually talked with the guest. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Here we go. Dr. Orrin Godfried.
All right. We are here today with Dr. Oren Gottfried. Dr. Gottfried, can we call you Oren? Is that okay? Please do. All right. It’s so good, uh, to, to get a chance to talk with you. I first, uh, um, found out about you on Twitter. You’ve got a, a pretty sizable Twitter following, always posting interesting videos, some of which I, I can, I show Kristen and, um, uh, they’re very medically related, some surgical videos.
And as someone who’s not in in medicine, um, you know, I can kind of, uh, I enjoy seeing her reaction to some of the content you post, which is always
Kristin: fun. It never ceases to amaze me how you guys get used to some of these things.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: It gets me in trouble a little cuz I’m so used to [00:07:00] things that I have to use my 10 year old as a radar, you know, I’ll have the 10 year old see it and she’s like, no, I don’t wanna see that.
I’m like, okay, I can’t post it.
Will: Right? What does, what, so what does your 10 year old think of your job, uh, as a neurosurgeon?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: I think she is respectful of that. Um, just to give a comparison, once I helped on a video game and that was like much cooler for her and her friends. Yeah, for sure. But, but the part that I get to help brains, she thinks it’s pretty cool, but yeah, I don’t have as much credibility as the what that video game hat.
Kristin: right. That makes sense. Yeah. That means you’re doing it, right. If, if your children think that, you know, you have absolutely no street cred other than things like video games, then I think you’re, you’re doing that’s right. Just fine. As a parent now
Will: you have, you have a very, uh, an interesting background and just what you do, not only on the neurosurgery side, but also as a medical consultant on tv because every.
Everybody in medicine watching these videos has always, like, at some point thought to [00:08:00] themselves like, you know, who’s, who’s consulting on this, me, on this show? Or who’s coming up with this? Who’s letting them, you know, barely press on the chest during chest compressions? You know, that’s not the way it’s supposed to be.
So I wanna, I wanna get to that side of things here in a little bit. But first, um, I have a question just about neurosurgery Now, you, you’re, hopefully, you, you’re aware of some of the videos that I make about neurosurgeons course. Yes. I love
Dr. Oren Gottfried: them.
Will: So, yeah, my question like, what did I get right? What, what do I need to do better?
Do you have notes? Do you have notes for me?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: I do. I think that you, you get it All right. And the way I look at it, if we can’t as a community look at how things were wrong in the past and laugh at them. Then we’re then we’re the ones problem. Yeah. And so I think that for anyone that’s been me in medicine for some time sees the historical element and we all wanna do better.
So I don’t want the comment, you’re nice for a neurosurgeon, that’s a [00:09:00] really mean comment like for my nurses. And it’s like mm-hmm Haven’t we tried to prove this, you know, over and over and over again for the last 30 years. So I think you get everything right. Yeah. Um, I always worry, you know, that your audience needs to be as, Smart at interpreting things as, you know, the average and someone that accepts a little bit more from the medicine.
Yeah. Um, but in general I get it. And just so you know, I have checked and I think all neurosurgeons find it funny and the one guy that did it, we don’t like him so
Will: well. I love it because, and that’s why I love making videos, uh, that have surgical. Subspecialist or just surgeons in general in, because you, you, you always have a good sense of humor.
Like you don’t, you don’t take yourself like too seriously that you can’t laugh at yourself, which I as a, as a self-described comedian, physician person, like, I really appreciate that. So thanks for not, uh, you know, being mad at me.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: I’m just never [00:10:00] noticed. You know, it could be that you just chose not to go about neurosurgeons, but the fact that we’ve piqued your interest Oh yeah.
And we’re part of the dialogue. That’s
Will: good. I love. And now you went to residency, uh, at the University of Utah, uh, from 2001 to 2007. So what was, what was training like then and uh, comparing it to now?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Well, you just mentioned where I trained, so I can’t tell any of the real dirt, but let’s pretend like you didn’t admit to where I trained.
Um, it’s remarkable. Um, I, I have so many stories. I have to think which ones will get me in less trouble. But I think it’s a time, it’s a time period issue. It’s not neurosurgery. Yeah. It’s not specific to my program. It just has to do with the, the different time. I mean, today it would be fair for a doctor to say it’s time to go home.
Um, when I trained, you wouldn’t wanna mention the H word, you know, you would be considered lazy. Right. For saying home, for wanting to go see your wife and kids for wanting to have a [00:11:00] life outside. And now in today’s world, I love to hear what my residents I get to operate with. I wanna hear what they’re doing.
I mean, I’m living vicariously through them. They’re, yeah, having the exciting life. And while they’re a neurosurgery resident where, when I was in training, I was just a resident. I didn’t have anything else going on for a while until I realized that’s not right. And so I enjoy the fact that it’s different.
But I still catch myself saying, you know, I trade before the a d R work week. And it’s like, I know I can’t see things like that, but I, I literally worked, I had several weeks, I worked a 40 hours, you know, 30 hours. I don’t see how that
Will: possible. Yeah. Well wait, how many hours are in a week? Can’t be more, much more than that.
That’s, uh, because you’re like literally living at the hospital, resident insurance, like you were like a resident of
Dr. Oren Gottfried: the hospital. Basic there basically, yeah. I mean, there was a shift where we started Friday morning, 5:00 AM and it ended on Monday night whenever we were done rounding. Oh my gosh. And so you lived in the hospital for those days?
I mean, I, you didn’t get to go outside. So I started, you know, my day night cycle was [00:12:00] off me. Think about how it is when you go to a movie theater and you step out, think about if you went to a four day movie. I mean, it’s so hard to get your bearings right. That’s so, and I wouldn’t even have to sneak out on the Monday, Monday after rounds at like 8:00 PM I’d sneak out again.
I couldn’t say I was going home. I’m going to my other hospital. Right.
Will: That’s actually, that’s a really, uh, that’s a really good comparison of going to the movie for like record days, four straight days. Yeah. A really, uh, a really scary movie. Yeah. Really
Kristin: very scary. It’s always amazed and baffled me that the, the very people who are learning about what the body needs and how to take care of the body and how to heal the body are the ones that are perpetuating this culture of doing things that are horrible for the body.
Will: Fortunately, it’s a lot better
Dr. Oren Gottfried: now. Yeah. So much better. I think
Kristin: we still have a ways to go though. Like, I mean, it, it has come a very long ways, but I think, you know, we’re not, we’re not all the way there yet, but we’re much
Will: farther. Well, I think also just in general, physicians are still [00:13:00] really bad about caring for themselves.
Yeah. I mean that’s, and that ir, you know, irrespective of, of Right worker at home, the number of hours you’re working, we’re just like really bad at it. Yeah. So we tend to think we know more about things than maybe we should and don’t take certain things seriously. My sense
Kristin: is you all are thinking like, well, if you’re not dying, then that’s it.
Like, those are the two options. You’re, you’re fine. Or
Will: you’re dying. Which I think Orrin, I think at, you know, toward the end of a 130 hour shift, I think you probably physically were dying. You might been dying. Yeah. I think you were slowly succumbing to, to your sleep deprivation.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: I don’t know when police noticed.
I mean, I got pulled over more than one time. Um, I, for whatever reason, I was very uncool and I still have my surgeon cap on, but I also, um, when the police officer got to my side and saw the surgeon’s cap and realized, you know, I wasn’t drunk on alcohol. I was just, Sleep deprived. They always let me go. So I mean, just the note at the time, just having [00:14:00] a surgical cab.
Eventually I was just on call. I didn’t get any tickets. They always let me go, but they were so worried about me. One of them like followed me home. He made sure my driving was effective enough that I wasn’t gonna hurt somebody and got me safely to my home. Oh wow. Yeah. Uh,
Kristin: yeah, I feel like when that is, um, the case, it’s time to change things to take a look at the system.
Will: Yeah. So, so one of the, one of the things that I, I like to make fun of about neurosurgeons is that like, I’ve never seen a neurosurgery attending. In fact, you might actually be the, like one of the first neurosurgery attendings. Actually I’ve been to a neurosurgery conference, but in general, You’re kinda like mythical creatures because like going through residency, cuz I, as an ophthalmologist and an ophthalmology resident, I would cross paths with neurosurgeon.
Most of it’s like, you getting mad at me because I dilated somebody’s eyes. Um, but, uh, uh, I, I never did see the attending neurosurgeon. It’s uh, and so whenever you get through residency and you begin now, you’re, you, you have an [00:15:00] academic career. Um, uh, are you, I mean you exist, I mean, I guess we can tell people like you do actually exist, but it must be
Do we know that for sure though? Cuz he is in the computer, he could be ai. Do
Will: you actually, do you venture into the hospital even with your, your army of residents at your disposal?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Yeah, I mean, I don’t spend as much time as they do. Um, my, my, um, Where I’m seeing my locations being tracked. You know, it’s like when I’m there, people need to know, you know, how many minutes away.
You know, they’re following me real closely. Yeah. But I would say there’s less loitering. I, as an attending Ah, yeah. Refused to loiter hospital, whereas it wasn’t called loitering when I was a resident, it was called being a resident. Right. And so you basically were required We would lo around, we’d stay there until the attending made his his of her appearance.
Yeah. And then we know we were seat and then we could go. So there was a big element of, let me be around the hospital, let mm-hmm. Let me be, know that I’m at the [00:16:00] hospital, and then as an attending, you come in and do your job and you get out, you know, just very intentional. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Not as mythical, but intentional.
Will: That’s a good point. And so, at what point during your career did this, I want to get into the medical consultant stuff now, because I That’s very interesting. Uh, w tell me about how that started. I guess let’s start there.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Yeah, so I’ve been at it for about 13 years, exactly the time period I’ve been at Duke.
So I was a new hire on an academic track for neurosurgery. I was just starting to see patients, you know, I did not have a busy practice and granted I’m in North Carolina, my administrative assistant gave me a little post-it, you know, um, that said consult doctor in California and a number, and I really thought long and hard.
Like, I don’t really wanna accept a transfer. You know, transfers are always complex cases. Like why aren’t there any other hospitals between North Carolina and California? Yeah. And I get on the [00:17:00] line and the nice doctor, it actually is a doctor. It is a patient. But he starts telling me, don’t hang up on me, please don’t take up hang up.
He’s like every other neurosurgeon I asked to help me hung up on, oh no. Like, okay, you already sound pretty sad, so let me help you. And he was like, I’m working on a pilot about a neurosurgeon that’s trying to cure his wife. His wife has some terminal illness. I need to know what that is. How are we gonna save her?
I’m like, this is kind of cool, you know? I know. Yeah. You know, I know medicine, I know neurosurgery, but I’ve never thought creatively about storytelling at that point. And so I helped him through that case. Um, the pilot never went anywhere, but he saw that I really enjoyed it. And so one thing led to another and I found myself doing a lot of voluntary work for many years, but then eventually, I became the guy, you know, the person for shows and I regularly still do voluntary work where shows can just phone me up for a one episode question.
I actually embraced that quite a bit because medical shows are gonna get a lot of things right cuz they’re working with a consultant. [00:18:00] Where TV really gets it wrong is when no one thought about that doc, Dr. Google was enough. You know, they thought it, they could squeeze it by and get away with it and then at the last second they think, wait, there are ways to get in touch with a doctor and not just your next door neighbor.
That right, you know, is a podiatrist. Nothing wrong with podiatry, but it was a neurosurgery question. And so they probably could do, but in general, um, so the show’s not realizing they need someone is where they could really benefit. But I helped one show that led to another show and I just regularly get called up to do new work and I love
So I, I didn’t realize that, I guess it makes sense that, you know, for a movie with a bigger budget, you know, they’d actually have consultants. I, I mean, it makes sense I guess, that that TV shows were just winging it all these years and that’s what was happening. Like they weren’t, they were just kind of trying to figure it out on their own.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Well, not for medical shows. I do feel modern medical shows have not just one consultant. I mean, there’s, Grey’s Anatomy literally has like, uh, [00:19:00] interns. They have doctor, a hospital doctor. They have this big program with like 20 doctors. So I would say that any medical show figured it out. Yeah. What happens is you have an episode where a main character is in a coma and you think about, does coma mean sleep or is it something different?
And it’s like, if you portray it as a deep sleep, you’re gonna upset a lot of people, not just the doctors, nurses, but loved ones that have had a family member. Mm-hmm. And so I think it’s this, we only have a medical story for one episode. We can meet it. Oh, gotcha. And there are free services, one of them’s Hollywood Health and Society, where all they do is match up writers with, um, medical type.
And so every, and not just like I’m covering it all, it’s like every specialty. So there’s an answer. But when I think to myself, I’m watching a show, I’ve already thrown the remote. If there wasn’t remote, I’m mad. You know, I’m, I’m going and like, you know, changing the channel, never watching, you know, that streaming service.
Yeah. I think could they have just called me? They could have called me. We had this nice five minute call. I could be very focused. [00:20:00] I wanna be, and we just hash out the issues, right? So it’s like something I couldn’t help with a few answers, you know, like throw on nasal cannula, a few extra beeping noises, put the head of bed at 30 degrees, you know, have some manitol running or what have you.
I could have helped them through it. They didn’t know they needed my help.
Will: And so you, so you got that first call, which it sounds like it was kind of just happenstance, right? Like they, they, they tried, uh, any number through it, just going through the phone
Kristin: book it sounded like Exactly.
Will: Desperate. Uh, and they landed on you and, and you’re willing to help them.
And so it, it just kind of snowballed from there. But was it, it wasn’t all like neurosurgery or neuro, you know, neuroscience related questions, right? I assume you were probably being consulted on all kinds of things in medicine.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Yeah, I mean, it’s all kinds of shows. I mean, my first true show I landed on was Royal Paynes.
I mean, I remember that might know the story, but you know, it’s a guy that lives in the Hamptons and he is not allowed to be in the hospital. So he is doing all of his medical care, like at the mansions, [00:21:00] very wealthy people. And so right away I had to adapt to the fact that I’m not gonna get a hundred percent reality.
But it’s like the, the illnesses we deal with are gonna be portrayed in a fair manner. We’re not gonna get, have too many coincidences, you know, where you can do a barrel hole in someone’s kitchen and then, you know, next scene later, you know, they’re in their living room enjoying a cocktail. So, I mean, I’m making things a ruined, but I couldn’t put all the connections together.
So, but then I went from royal pains to elementary, so, you know, it’s a murder who done it. And obviously the creator at Sherlock Holmes, it’s about a doctor, you know. And so, but they didn’t ask me doctor questions. I had to create their murder and then have Watson solve the murder using scientific pro approach in using medicine.
And so I was answering really weird questions like, you know, holding, if you hold up a vacuum to someone’s nose, how long would it take to suck out all of their oxygen? You cannot look that up on the internet. It doesn’t exist. And my internet search would’ve led me to prison. Yeah. So I’m looking up [00:22:00] so many bad things, but it allowed me to use medical knowledge to not only create the drama and the story, but to solve the case.
And so I enjoyed that. That’s so,
Will: so you were, you’re involved in the, the writing of the story too, in some, in some
Dr. Oren Gottfried: shows, is that, yeah. So I mean, where I could use the most is that I’m helping the writer. I could pitch a story, I could help break the story with the writer. I could help coordinate and push things in the right direction.
And then I’m even reading scripts and outlines. So while I, I u I do have some onset stories. Most of my work is working with the writers. I’m working on the writing.
Will: Have you ever, uh, are there any specialties like, I don’t know, for instance, ophthalmology, where you’re like, yeah, you need to talk to somebody who actually, you know, knows a lot about eyeballs.
Does that ever kinda, I’m sure he could refer you to some of his partners. I know, I know a few people. I’m just saying if you don’t want to, you know, do the eyeball stuff, like it’s, I’m
Dr. Oren Gottfried: just saying Yeah. I think that I’m only as good as my, my contacts, so while I [00:23:00] can give a quick answer, do I respect the show enough that they need a higher level expert?
So, absolutely. The issue is the writers know, they, like, there’s horse whispers. The writers are foreign whispers. They know me already. They know how I talk, so I can’t, bringing in a bunch of consultants Yeah. That are gonna have their own doctor speak and they’re gonna have to figure them out. You know, it took.
Five years for, um, one of my shows to figure me out. So the good part is then I interpret the, the expert and I just give them the number. Oh, that’s right. So my shows don’t care if it’s accurate, but I, as accurate as I want it to be. But when I, I love to talk to the specialist, like, yeah, at Duke University, I’ll sit in the doctor’s lounge and then I see the urologist walk in and I’m like, I have some urology questions for you.
You know, I see the orthopedic search. I have some questions for you. Now, granted, they all come in through the other entrance to void me, but I mean, I’m smart. They’re on you now, and I have to just track them down.
Will: It’s actually very similar to the way, in some way how I put my skits together, because like, I don’t know anything about [00:24:00] urology.
I don’t know anything about, you know, most non ophthalmology related things. And so I have to do a lot of my own research to try to. Come up, come up with something that’s, that seems accurate, you know, that can pass for actual medical knowledge, because that’s, as you can attest, I’m sure, like, that’s really important because if there’s one thing that, like medical people, doctors, nurses, they’ll, they will like, just like latch on to the one inaccurate thing and just, it just ruins it for like, the rest of the
Dr. Oren Gottfried: episode.
So you just do a lot of research. I, you’re probably not gonna give your sources away, but I’m, when it comes to like, neurology, neurosurgery, you’re like, yeah. Very, very accurate. So you must trust the, your sources. I know you must do a lot of research. I’ll, I’ll
Will: tell, I’ll tell you what I do. Um, it’s, it’s not that sophisticated.
Well, because see in ophthalmology, I’m not in the hospital, so I don’t routinely interact with, I don’t just, I wouldn’t just see a urologist come in. They’d be very [00:25:00] lost if that ever happened.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: You know, they’d be, they’d be
Kristin: there as a
Will: patient. Yeah, exactly. So, so I, I don’t physically interact with ’em, so what I do is I will, like, if I have an idea for something, I’ll get on Reddit threads that are like eight to 10 years old.
And because if there’s one universal truth, it’s that people complain about their jobs on social media and so I’ll, I’ll just look at these really old Reddit threads or whatever and just listen to what these different specialists are talking about. And I’ll, it’ll give me an idea for something and then I just have to, you know, gain some of the knowledge that way.
Um, why are, why the old threads. Well, they don’t have to be old. It’s just like, that seems it. The point is people have been talking about all these things for a long period of time, and so it’s very easy to, to find the little nuggets of knowledge that I need. Things that have lasted through the years.
Yeah. And then, and then it’s coming from the actual physicians in those specialties. Mm-hmm. And so that I, I, I have to assume it’s accurate, [00:26:00] so I use it and it turns out it’s works. Luckily,
Kristin: his stuff is satire works, so if he gets it wrong, it’s just part of the joke. Exactly, yeah. Which I think you probably have to be a little more accurate
Dr. Oren Gottfried: in what you do.
Yeah, but I mean, the, the fact is I’m just looking at old, um, articles and so when it comes to research, I’m gonna wanna quote, you know, jama, new England Journal Lancet, but I’m okay if it’s the case report of name, a new country we’ve never heard of. It’s like, I’ll look at journals that aren’t necessarily because I need to find weird stuff that mm-hmm.
People, you know, it wasn’t in New England Journal last week, never even saw that. So I actually look up case reports, but I go to the really obscure journals with the impact factor of the editor and two of his friends. And it’s like, and, and I trust it because at least published, but at the same time Yeah.
That’s fascinating. How do you pick up the faces of all the doctors? You must have some memory of those doctors to, to recreate the visuals on your, your
Will: position. Yeah. Well, well first, so, so you’re basically going to like the neurologic neurosurgical Journal of Siberia to find your mm-hmm. Yeah. To find your [00:27:00] stuff.
Yeah. I, I would say, um, There are certain characters that I, I have a mental image of them from my own med school experience. So I’ve come across certain types of doctors. Some of them are just totally made up like the, I mean the, the emergency medicine doc, you know, he is, he is wearing the, the, all the biking gear.
You know, I, I can’t say I’ve ever, actually, actually one time I did see an emergency physician actually show up in the hospital with bike gear on. So I, I guess that one is actually with a white, white coat or no white coat? No white coat. Um, I don’t know if you ever put a white coat on, but, or practice medicine while wearing a helmet.
Um, that would go along with the, the, the safety, uh, kind of side of the things there. But, um, yeah, I guess most of them now are made my memory’s kind of fading of everything, you know, all the other medical specialties. So a lot of the personalities, I think people relate to them because they are, uh, uh, different personalities and different specialties [00:28:00] are very consistent.
Like over generations. Right. So like neurosurgeons, like I’m sure you probably see a lot of the same types of personalities of among neurosurgeons when you go to like a neurosurgery conference.
Kristin: Yeah. Certain traits that lend themselves better to some specialties than
Will: to others. Well, I don’t know. What do you think?
Is it the chicken or the egg? Like is it a certain personality that. That joins a specialty? Or is it the specialty that makes the personality or maybe a combination of
Dr. Oren Gottfried: both? You know, I don’t know. I think because of our awareness at this point, um, everybody acknowledges that where there’s diversity, there’s gonna be a, we’re, we’re not gonna know what the other person’s about to say.
We’re not gonna be a bunch both. So I think we have almost identified what the typical personality is, and then we love when someone wants to go to neurosurgery. That just strikes us as totally unique new perspective. So I think it’s that self-awareness that we don’t want to be perceived, you know, let’s just say a studious or er Yeah.
That we actually have really good stories. When I sit on residency panels and we look through what people accomplished, I would never [00:29:00] get into training this these days. You know, they’re so well accomplished. They’ve done so much. It’s scary. I know. They, they have so much personality like, I mean, the opposite of what we’re talking about now with the neurosurgeon that doesn’t have personality, it’s almost like they have so much personality that when I’m in the OR with them, I seem like I’m more interesting.
And it’s like, so it pays off well to bring, you know, bring in people that are really well-rounded, really different than we, you know, we, I totally agree.
Will: Yeah. It’s, it’s, I I actually do have my, uh, my med school application. At least my, my, you know, some of it I like, nowhere, nowhere even close to, to the types of applicants that are applying these days.
It’s, it’s scary. They all have Nobel prizes.
Kristin: Yeah. Fair. They all like started business. Don’t dunno how they do it and run a nonprofit
Will: Really is incredible. Yeah. Um, so I’m glad I don’t have to apply now, but also the research, that’s the other thing, like, did you do a lot? I mean, you’ve, you’ve published.
Okay, here’s the question. Like, how are you doing all this? All right. People ask me [00:30:00] that, right? Like, I’m just making like two minute skits. All right. You’re like, you, you, you publish, you have like, what, a, somewhere around a thousand papers. I don’t know, most of which are not in the Journal of Siberia, but I’ve never been in
Dr. Oren Gottfried: the Siberian Journal.
I really want one to, uh,
Will: good to have goals. Yeah. But you, so you got the, the ac you’re still, you’re still publishing, right? You’re still doing research. And, um, and, uh, you also have this, this secondary, uh, gig here with, uh, being a TV consultant. And you’ve also started dabbling in acting, I understand. Is that right?
You’re doing a little acting. Yeah, just a little. Did that, did that come naturally as a neurosurgeon?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Um, well, I mean, I’m playing, so just so you know, I’m playing Dr. Oren Godfrey, so it’s like, oh, that his bowl acting ok. My character is my name. I just happen to work at another facility. Um, so I’m already helping in the crafting of the stories.
So it’s like, okay, sometimes I even get to contribute to how I, you know, some of my line. So I think it comes, well, because I already have a vision of how the scene looks, that collaborated with the [00:31:00] writers so much that I’ve just placed myself into the mix. But I love it. Yeah. The way I look at it is I get to experience complications that I never wanna experience, but I wanna know how to do better than that.
So we write these awful complications the doctors are having to deal with. I’ve never had that one, but I feel like when the patients asked me, have you ever had this particular problem? I’m like, yeah, I will mention it was on, you know, TV show, but I have mitigated risk. I’ve I’ve gotten the fish from You thought it’s great.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I’ve worked through the situation, so I feel like it’s very healthy and arctic for me to be able to, you know, go through that experience, but not really having gone through that
Kristin: experience. Yeah. Like a little practice run. Yeah, trial run for weird cases. But,
Will: but how, how many days are you clinically like seeing patients doing surgery?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Yeah, so I have a, a typical five day week, um, not counting when I’m on call. Um, I do clinic three days a week and I do, I’m in the operating room two days. Um, I do, I’m just a modern doctor. I don’t like the I idea of operating from 7:00 AM to 9:00 [00:32:00] PM That is the, mm-hmm. That is not even a possibility for me.
So I really make my schedule in such a way that I do have time for research. I do have time to, you know, eat dinner with my family, things that are really important. And so I’m not, you know, maybe I’m not the typical neurosurgeon. If you know anything you know about rvu, you do. Um, I’m not trying to do 25,000 rvu.
I mean, to me, the, the really important people, like the ones I respect, they’re actually able to operate at a very high level, complex cases volume, but yet they’re still well-rounded. That’s, you know, that to me is a harder solution to figure out. I’d prioritize my patients and my life. You know, those are my two things and mm-hmm.
My life, I’m, I’m better off doing the consult role cuz it’s, it’s a joy. It’s kind of fun. I get to, you know, creative outlet with the Hollywood type. Yeah. It’s a nice outlet. But I do research, I like doing, looking into, um, we all try to practice really fair care, but patients are not getting for care, you know?
Mm-hmm. Before they even get to the hospital, before they even get to the clinic, [00:33:00] they’re not in an equal situation to do well and it’s like, why do some people do really well with the, so surgery and the other ones have the same surgeon, same surgery, and they don’t do as well. So I really like looking into, well, I hate that I have to looking into the disparities of care inequities and social determinants of health that.
I, I, I’m just, that’s the area I’d like to figure out. You know, we all can, as surgeons, we can all do really good surgeries, but if we’re finding that we’re denying a proportion of the population success for whatever reason it is, we owe it to them to figure out why and try to level the playing
Will: field. Hmm.
And as you go through neurosurgery residency, wasn’t research a part of your training? I think, uh, I think that’s pretty typical, right? For neurosurgery residencies,
Dr. Oren Gottfried: it’s usually one year in the middle, kind of between the junior years and senior years. I always thought it was done because you, you’re done with the junior years and you wanna come in with positive notes.
They’d make you forget over the year what it was like over that year and then come back all charged up. But it’s also good to research and so many people [00:34:00] start their research careers during that, during that time and, you know, might do some real hardcore basic science work. I’ve always thought that I’d rather have a living, living lab than an actual lab.
So I like to work with data and work with outcomes, but I have a lot of respect for people that like to work
Will: in the lab. Yeah, me too. I’ve spent, spent a little bit of time at a lab and college and, uh, it’s hard. It’s extremely hard work, and it also taught me that it’s not something I wanna do with my life.
And so I, I appreciate that experience.
Kristin: Somebody’s got to do it. It’s work,
Will: somebody. So it’s good that I just, I just, uh, couldn’t, uh, I didn’t have the patience for doing like, PCRs and gene sequencing and all that stuff, so I’m glad we have people that do that though. Did you always, were, was an academic career always in your future?
Did you know you wanted that early.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Yeah, I mean, I think it was just the idea of giving back. You know, we learn how to do things, we get to function at a high level, and I could just work with the patients, which to me, that’s a [00:35:00] lot and that’s everything. But I also like the idea that I give back to a younger group and actually teach.
Yeah. And I like the idea that we’re never, we’re all learners. We never finish learning. And for me, academics is acknowledging every day you show up that you’ve not figured it out. You know, my, the residents may ask me a question that I’ve never thought of or, you know, it just prompts me then to go look into the research looking at the data.
So I always thought, thought that that would be where I wanted to land. But it is hard when there’s so many restrictions on how we practice medicine and working in academics here, accepting the whole sphere. Things, you know, that are practiced at a different level. It’s not the typical, just go operate a ton and mm-hmm.
You know, be, be a good to your patients. There’s just a whole lot more to it. But I enjoy the whole lot more, you know, teaching and research. Well, I think
Will: you’re, you’re dispelling a lot of the, um, maybe the myths that unfortunately there’s some like, you know, comedian, ophthalmologists out there that like to perpetuate about stereotype, about stereotypes, about neurosurgery.
So, so well done. Keep [00:36:00] up the good work. Um, but let’s, uh, let’s take a quick break and we’ll be right back with Dr. Orrin Gottfried.
Hey, Kristen. Do you know why a stethoscope is so hard to use?
Kristin: Um, because there’s no heartbeat in an eyeball.
Will: That’s actually a really good point, but also the heart is quiet. Mm-hmm. The, the sounds are somewhat distant and sometimes you’re in a noisy environment and you’re trying to listen to all the, the beeps and boops and whatever other noises there are in the heart.
Uh, but with Echo Health’s three M Lipman core digital stethoscope, it’s easier than ever. You get 40 times sound amplification, active background, noise cancellation. Honestly, even an ophthalmologist could figure it out. I also
Kristin: really could have used one of those before I had to do 10 minutes of CPR on you.
It leads to earlier detection, better outcomes, something in that’s definitely
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Kristin: that can help you feel less overwhelmed and burnt out, and just kind of restore the joy to practicing
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All right, we are back with Dr. Godfried. So. Orrin, uh, I, I know that you have I’m sure lots of interesting stories working with, [00:38:00] uh, the Hollywood types and, and this whole different world of entertainment. Uh, and so, you know, tell me about, you know, shooting scenes. I know you’ve been working on the, with, uh, the Good Doctor, which is how many seasons has a good doctor been on now?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Um, six seasons. They just finished their sixth.
Will: Okay, gotcha. Season. Yeah. So tell me what that’s, what that was like shooting a scene for the Good
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Doctor. Well, it was definitely a, a maybe so as it developed, and I was hoping it’d be become a certainty, but what the, the episode involved that all the residents are trying to figure out how to do this really, really hard once in a lifetime spine surgery.
And they’re all kind of competing with the child there to see who gets the cage. So at one point they’re in this lab working on like a really, like a dummy or a simulator where they’re trying to put in the spruce and they, each one of the residents, the attendings walking around and each one of the residents has to show what they did.
And it’s like, you know, didn’t do right? This is awful. Why didn’t you do that? But during it, there is a [00:39:00] video playing of this fake course they took and I was the instructor and so I was teaching, uh, course on how to do things better. So that’s the premise. Um, I wasn’t given a lot of information and I wasn’t given any slides, but I was just told, why don’t you teach this fake lecture?
Um, again, no fancy cameras, no audio, just me. And they’re like, why don’t you teach a lecture? We don’t care what you say. Probably won’t even put your voice in, but we just want it to look legitimate. So, I mean, I’m thinking, this was before I had a AX role in another show and I was just thinking, this is my one time to be on air.
I’m gonna put everything into it. I’m just gonna like, I’m gonna hire a bunch of video videographers. I’m gonna get a bunch of dummies. I’m gonna have all the coolest tool. And I spent hours just coming out with my first product and sent it over. And I’m not like sending it in some fancy format. I literally did this with my iPhone.
That’s what they wanted. And I don’t get any feedback. Like none. I’m like, did I do wrong? Who did I piss off? You know, all they did was everything they said, and like a few [00:40:00] days later, cryptically, I get a try again. Oh. But I didn’t get any feedback. I didn’t, huh? All they said is proverbially. We don’t wanna see your whole face.
So like, they don’t, I don’t know, they just wanna see my hands. So not a lot of feedback and all credit to them. I’m the one pushing this along. They could have just said, they even said we could just shoot this locally and, you know, no big deal. I’m like, no, I’m gonna get this right. And so I do another version, but granted, I had to have all these spine cut out.
Like they’re simul. They’re like, yeah, slide models. And I’m like, chopping them up left and right. And I have all like, a bunch of friends, like, help me get them from all over the country. But it’s not easy to buy a fake spy. You should see my locker now. I never threw them away and it just filled with a bunch of spines.
Um, but I do another iteration. It doesn’t, it feels the same to me. Like I didn’t have any feedback and I set it in. And again, cryptically, I get a little feedback better. Like, I don’t know which part’s better. Like, like maybe one thing, like focus a little bit more on your hands. And so I did the next one and it, it worked I [00:41:00] think there, and it made the final cut.
Kristin: Did you ever figure out what they were going for
Dr. Oren Gottfried: there or just, well, I watched the final episode and it was me working in the background, but um, yeah, but it’s in the or, so I left that out. But I’m doing all these scenes from the or and if you know anything about how medicine’s practiced right now, like everything’s about capacity.
You have to like use every, or the fact that I found an or to shoot this in and my callings would come in and like, What are you doing? Like I had all these props and things and they’re like, we need to use that or for an emergency, but all the, I, I paid off all the nurses in the OR to tell them what’s up, and they’re like, no, we can’t use this.
Or, this is Gottfried’s or he’s shooting a c. And so it was just fun to actually be in my home environment. The, or, yeah. And yet I’m not doing anything. Like I, I did take off a few hours to do this each time, but I, it was just fun to be in my own home. Come away from home, shoot this, and then to know, you know, my university, everything made it to the final cut.
So it was just, it was a special time for me. I think
Will: maybe the final producers of [00:42:00] the show, um, maybe they underestimated just how much of a perfectionist physicians are. Hmm. So, uh, you’re right. You know, more feedback would’ve been, would’ve been nice, but, you know, you got it. Nice job. Yeah. And, um, uh, also you, I love it cuz you gave us these, uh, a few little prompts of different stories, you know, from your time in, uh, doing all this stuff and they, they really like leave me wanting to know more.
So tell me about, uh, an actor that attacked you.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Wow. Yeah, that was quite the thing. So I’ve been on sets, uh, many times now, obviously I’ve even acted. But the very first time I was on set, it was a new show. It was elementary, it was a new show, and so everybody’s new to each other, so there’s not a lot of.
Playing rules, but I was told by all the writers, whatever you do, you know, don’t, don’t look any of the actors in the eye. Don’t walk up to them, don’t tell them anything. You can talk to them if they talk to you. And so I show up the first day, and it’s a new show so no one knows who’s the guest on set, but I’m sitting, they have me [00:43:00] sit in like the, you know, the video village in like the director’s seat.
You know, I’m sitting with like the, the big wigs, uhhuh. And so each one of the actors slowly migrate to me trying to figure out, you know, am I with the network, with the studio? Who am I? And right away I tell ’em, I’m just medical consultant. Some people say, oh, I didn’t even think we had one. And so I’m just getting to know them, but I’m kind of chill, not doing much.
Um, but the lead of the show has not come up to me to talk. And so y’all eat together in the lunch room. And, and so I just like sat at his table. I admired his work. I thought he was cool. I thought it would be fun. And he just didn’t look up. He just was eating his food and he’s almost done with his meal.
I’m almost done with my meal. He’s probably gonna go, you know, study his lines and do things are productive. And I’m just waitering on the set and he just turns to me out of nowhere and is like, you know, you really shouldn’t, um, introduce yourself. We have a custom, you need to introduce yourself. And, and I just said, I was told not to bug the actor.
She’s like, that’s not right. And I, I’m not even trying to emulate his. Yeah, his speech patterns. [00:44:00] But he was like, no, when you come on my set, when you come on a new set, we’re all people. You need to introduce yourself. And I just think to myself, okay, wow. Oh wow. You know, I’m sorry I didn’t introduce myself and to this date, I, it, it got, yeah, it went further.
But to this date, I didn’t know if he was, I’m joking with me, you know, I’m a neurosurgeon. Sometimes it’s hard to figure out or if he was totally serious, but it did escalate a little bit. And then another actor, a character that was just a guest, the actor on the show sat down and he’s also very famous.
It was kind of random to be at that table and he changed the subject cuz this other actor, every line he says is F this, F that. And it’s like all the F bonds kind of distracted the actor. So it kind of changed the subject. But I wanted to join in, in this conversation just to see if, was I really on the, the crap list or was it all a joke?
Yeah. And I did engage, I brought up Mad Cow disease and things I know a lot about and it really worked. And I got into the mix of the conversation and I just didn’t I, to this date, I don’t know if he was just picking on me if I really upset him, but just think I sat there for a whole 20 minute meal. He didn’t even look up or look at me.
And then at, you know, [00:45:00] one moment he just tells me, you, you screw it up, you should have said hi. So, um, it never got to the point of physical, like hitting me, but I did feel pretty dumb for a while.
Will: So lesson learned, if you want to really hit things off, uh, in a group of new people, bring up mad cow disease.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Yes. It’s a, it’s a great icebreaker. Really great. And it’s a neurosurgeon I know about, you know? Right. I know. You know, tri disease. It’s like something that I’ve had to go
Will: through. Yeah. Well, let’s, um, I wanna play a little game. This is, uh, about, uh, this side of your life, this entertainment side of your life.
Um, it’s called medical matchup. All right, so I, uh, have four scenarios. These are all things that have happened on a show that you’ve consulted on. Okay? I’m going to give you the scenario and I want you to tell me which show it’s from. All right. Let’s see if, let’s see how good your memory is, because you’ve been doing this for quite a while now, right?
So a long time. Um, all right, so let’s go. So I love some of these. [00:46:00] All right, so the first scenario here, a recently brain dead patient is taken off of life support so she can donate her face to the injured patient who has a chance to live with a transplant. Good doctor. That’s the good doctor. Yes. A face transplant.
Face transplant, yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Okay.
Kristin: Can we do those yet? I can’t remember. Yeah, I think I remember face off from like being a kid and that was like way science fiction at the time. I think it happened, hasn’t
Dr. Oren Gottfried: it? Yeah, there’s partial and complete and they’ve done a number. I mean, I think the, it’s 10 years now that they’ve been doing them, or slightly less.
Yeah. Oh, okay. But they’re doing really well. It’s still the, the problem that the patients have to be on anti-rejection medications, and it’s a very complex anastomosis, so I don’t think it’s for every, you know, patient that unfortunately has suffered, you know, severe damage to their face, but I think they’re gonna get better and better
Will: at it.
That sounds like a long surgery. Yeah,
Dr. Oren Gottfried: I, all day. Yeah. Those are mosis. I mean, just the way that they take off the initial face. These are [00:47:00] individuals, unfortunately, they’re very scarred in because of the trauma they’ve been through. Mm-hmm. Um, very high, um, chance that the, that, you know, blood supply is not enough.
Um, probably using leeches, the event for helping with the, you know, vens, um, congestion. So, yeah, definitely a lot for a TV story, but, um, a lot for, you know, I can’t even imagine, like, I think about this when we do the TV work is. What does it really feel like to be, you know, a patient or a family member? And that’s where I put my foot down and say the story has to be accurate.
Yeah. Because someone’s actually been through it. Right. And I can’t. Little minimize, marginalize, anything. I, you have to be so sensitive to the fact that someone’s actually been through this and be honest.
Will: Exactly. Right. And just because I know a lot of listeners, their ears are gonna perk up, uh, to hear you say that, uh, leeches are sometimes used in medicine still and help
Kristin: with venous congestion.
That was the Exactly, absolutely. On our last, last episode, we were just talking about that. So it’s
Will: of full circle moment here where we were wondering actually, like in what instances that is [00:48:00] actually used, because I’ve, I’ve never actually seen it, but again, uh, I’m in my own little corner of medicine, so we don’t use them routinely.
Noes on the
Dr. Oren Gottfried: eyeballs. No. No. Wow. That’s good tv. That’s good tv, right. There you go.
Kristin: There’s an idea. It down. He accepts commissions. No, I’m just kidding.
Will: All right, here’s, here’s my next scenario for you. Okay. What show is this from a pilot. Has severe stomach issues. Turns out that he has an addiction to drinking gasoline.
Oh wow. Do you remember this? It may not have been something you consulted on, but
Dr. Oren Gottfried: I mean, I would have to go with Chicago Med. Yes, you, Chicago Med. You got it. You drank gasoline
Kristin: once. You weren’t addicted to it.
Will: That was not a purposeful, uh, and I was a child, but you know.
Kristin: Wow. You get a gas
Will: station accident.
Yeah, but, uh, my mom’s gonna kill me for telling this story,
Dr. Oren Gottfried: but, um, how old were you? Oh, I was,
Will: I was probably like eight or nine or something. Uh, I’m a poster child for don’t let your kids, even if they want to help [00:49:00] you, put the gasoline in the car. Don’t let that happen because of course I screwed it up and, uh, kind of pulled the, sprayed himself in the face out, sprayed myself in the face.
I was fine, but, you know, had the emergency room trip and all that stuff. I just remember them taking all my clothes off. Just pouring buckets of cold water on me. Mm. I just, that’s, that’s like the only thing I remember from that experience. Like that was the worst part.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: That was, that was terrible. Anyway.
Who anyway throws the gas in your family then? I, we think you’d be traumatized to the point where you never go to a gas station. That’s why we live in
Kristin: Yeah. They pump it for you here. You’re not allowed to pump your own.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: I, I’m sorry. I didn’t even think about that. It’s now I totally understand why you live there.
Kristin: Yeah. It was the one and only reason we had to move
Will: out here. It is absolutely not the reason we live in Oregon. In fact, I think it’s, it’s, it’s really frustrating. I really don’t like, it takes a long time. It takes for to wait, you have to wait for some, but it’s, you know, it’s the economy and creates jobs and stuff, so it’s weird.
Yeah. There’s only two states. Do you know what the other state is that where you can’t pump your own
Dr. Oren Gottfried: gas? I was gonna make up Alaska, but I have
Will: no [00:50:00] idea. New Jersey, new Jersey’s, new New Jersey and Oregon. Okay. Well, all right, here’s the next one. This might be the last one. All right. Man has severe pain, but refuses to talk.
Turns out he has a gun lodged inside his rectum, and the doctors need to safely remove the gun without it going off. I would say Chicago Med. That’s also Chicago Med. Yes. And it’s making me want to watch Chicago Med because my God, the scenarios that have so many questions read about
Dr. Oren Gottfried: that many from that.
Will: so many questions. Um, I’ve never heard of that being something in, so I know there’s a lot of things that can be put up there, but, uh, yeah, a gun,
Kristin: a loaded gun, I would imagine that’s perhaps, well, I wouldn’t think that would be one of those where they, where that is, um, self-inflicted.
Will: Yeah. I don’t know.
But you never know. Let’s not ask those questions. I’m sure we can watch the show and find out. All right. Actually I do have one more. Okay. Um, this one probably a very common scenario actually. Painful patient has painful [00:51:00] headaches, memory loss, and hallucinations, which leads to a diagnosis of post-concussive, post-concussion syndrome, the result of too many blows to the head.
Which patient was that?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Well, I mean, there’s going to it, no, I’m not sure if you have all my shows. We did have that on elementary. Yes, it was elementary, yes. Yeah, I mean, that was the major character that got mad at me in the cafeteria. Oh, really?
Will: Oh, that was it. Okay.
Kristin: All right. Well, that’s funny. We didn’t even know that was gonna be
Will: Give us, give us your, can you give us your personal, like top three favorite medical shows?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Absolutely. I’m really, I’m really a sucker for those. I love when a show gets it right. Yeah. So, am I going in order or just listing Gary?
Will: Yeah, let go in order. Go in order. Yeah. Yes. Start
Kristin: at the bottom. Eight 11. Number
Dr. Oren Gottfried: three. So we’re doing my, my best favorite show.
Will: Yeah. So as your number one is your favorite.
And then, so start at three and go up to one. Let’s hear it. Okay. The ones
Dr. Oren Gottfried: that just jump out at you. Yeah. So I’m gonna put up my [00:52:00] list. I’ll just go with, I’ll put mash up. Oh, that is a good one. And I’ll tell you why. I mean, there’s, it’s a comedy, it’s, you know, dark and dealing with a very tough subject, but they actually hired a medical consultant.
I looked it up. They actually had a surgeon that helped ’em. And just at that time I already, I’m contradicting myself cuz I said there was a time where shows didn’t even know they needed somebody, but that Sean know, knew they needed somebody. And I just think, now granted, sometimes they’re doing surgery without gloves on.
You know, granted, there are times where something should have been, they’ve been, they should be paying attention to the surgery and not what they’re doing. But still, I, I just think they do a good job and I can watch the show and I don’t, it’s not cringe worthy. I can actually accept their logic. So that’s one I would put er next.
I mean, I’m of an age that. I did have er before I was in medical school to some extent, and I just felt like the intensity and the accuracy, the fact that they could say things in a, in a way that they could be saying complete garbage if you’re non-medical and wouldn’t even know. But they sounded [00:53:00] so good and it was so intense, and yet it was accurate and they didn’t stray from accuracy very often.
So I feel like they really, um, I agree. Stayed strong to that. Um, there was a short lived show that really captured my interest. It was the Nick. Oh yeah. Was Amazon, that’s like Showtime or Cinemax? Yeah. Yeah. Some weird small network, but it, it, it dealt with like the creation of medicine. So we’re like in 1910 in New York City and now granted not all of the inventions in medicine came out in New York City, but I’m sure a bunch did.
But they, they put together like a bunch of stories that didn’t exist as far as medicine, but it all seemed realistic. You really felt like that surgeon was creating medicine right in front of you, like putting cocaine into someone’s spinal fluids or anesthetic or some guy operating on cell. But it was only two seasons.
Yeah. But the medicine to me was very accurate. Now granted they didn’t have fancy sheets. There was only a limited amount of what you could do, but I bought into it and when that show was. Didn’t make it to a third season. I was pretty sad. [00:54:00] So I’m still a little sore.
Will: I I have to go revisit that show.
Cause I remember watching a, a few episodes and thinking it was really good. Yeah. So that’s, that’s, uh, which, you know, those cable shows, you know, the, the only other, I think was it, was it Showtime or HBO that had the, what’s the Plastic Surgery Show? That was pretty awful. Oh
Dr. Oren Gottfried: yeah.
Kristin: Oh, I know exactly.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Nip
Will: Nick Tuck.
Tuck, yes. Yeah. Uh, that, that was, that’s, that’s been a while since that one. I, my, my sister watched it. That’s how I heard about it.
Kristin: But How about Scrubs? What’s your, what’s your
Dr. Oren Gottfried: opinion on that? I mean, I love the dynamic. Yeah. So the rapport, the banter. I mean, I would say of things, just my own judgment of things that align with your comedy.
I would say the closest, like, yeah, honestly, I could see you as a character on that show. If the timing was right. You, I mean, yeah, you wouldn’t need other characters, you’d just run the whole show. But I’m saying it fits that vibe, you know, like you’re all of your various characters. I mean, they wouldn’t have to rewrite.
Like I always think if I’d pitch an idea to the writers and they just take it, I’m so cool. Like, they wouldn’t need to rewrite your stuff. It would just fit [00:55:00] in. So I felt the banter and the communication and the style and the respect for the attendings and how residents only survived with each other.
They could rely on each other. Yeah. It captured that like no other show. Absolutely. I, I do
Will: And you do a remake then I do draw a lot of inspiration, you know, from, because I, I grew up watching Scrubs. Yeah. Like, you know, that’s, that’s a very formative TV show in my, in my life. So, um, yeah. I have to ask about one
Kristin: more of respect for Scrubs, which is
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Yeah. So, I mean, justice background, the sa the majority of people that created Good Doctor created house. So, um, I grew up, you know, I was at a time I watched it. Um, I, I think it was very accurate. I do like the patterns, you know, like someone would code it 20 minutes on every episode. There’s certain things that watch a show you respect it.
But I mean to, like fundamentally, we are all very strong and we’re caring. We’re doctors, but are we all flawed? Right. 100%. We’re all flawed. Mm-hmm. And we’re all flawed in different ways. And so for a show [00:56:00] to admit that there’s a lot going on, but when you turn on, you know, you put the white coat on and you go see a patient, can you turn it on?
Can you do right for your patient? And so I felt like it’s a show that shows human character that no one’s perfect. They had a, you know, a good crew of people dealing with their own struggles, but Right. Very similar to the Good Doctor. Everybody can step up and do the right thing. But yeah, we’re all dealing with a lot.
So I felt like House did a really good job with that. Yeah, that’s
Kristin: true. Yeah. Kind of the human side of a doctor.
Will: Well, there you go. So it was Mash, uh, er, and, uh, the Nick. Yeah. That were, that were your top three. That’s a good list right there. Yeah, I’m sure you could probably do a lot more, but, um, those are good ones.
Well, Orin, thank you so much for coming on. It really has been a pleasure talking with you and getting your, uh, hearing about your experience in the entertainment world, which is something that’s always fascinated me. So keep up the awesome work. Uh, now you’re on Twitter. That’s how I, uh, you know, first heard about you on Twitter, uh, OG Duke Neurosurg.
Uh, and what [00:57:00] else, uh, are you working on anything else? Do you, what do you got going on in your life that you want people to know about?
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Yeah, I mean, there’s always this volunteer work and the shows I’m working on. Um, My research, um, I do a lot with data and, um, a big project I’ve taken, I’ve become a national chair for Data for American Spine Registry.
So we collect data from 200 centers around the country and then we look at how we can get, make outcomes better. I mentioned earlier how really interested in disparities and equaling score. And so as, as a data manager being, you know, in charge to chair, I just feel like we’re gonna do great things with all this data and probably, you know, hopefully improve the quality of care we all deliver.
Will: awesome. Yeah. Keep up the great work and, um, uh, congrats on somehow finding time to do all of these things. Yeah. Um, it’s, thank you. It’s awesome. So, uh, yeah, thanks for coming on.
All right. Big thanks to Dr. Gottfried for coming on. Uh, and giving his, uh, perspective [00:58:00] on, on tv medical shows. Yeah, that’s something I’ve always been curious about. I know, me too. Like how they, how they get the accuracy or, or inaccuracy. So if you have a medical TV show and that that’s your favorite and that they say something that’s medically incorrect, you can blame Oren for that.
For all medical
Kristin: TV shows. All medical
Will: TV across all of time. He said there are a lot of them, like the, like Grey’s Anatomy has like an army of of Right.
Kristin: I’d imagine too. It’s a balance of Right, like a trade off between story and
Will: Yeah. Hundred percent accuracy. It can’t be accuracy
Kristin: because it’s not a research journal, it’s a television show.
Right. Like there’s gotta be some
Will: drama. Yeah. You don’t want it to like be 100% accurate to medicine because
Dr. Oren Gottfried: no one would understand who wants to watch that. Yeah. I don’t know. Anyway,
Will: um, all right, so let’s get to stories. Should we, let’s do it. All right. So we have listener stories. A couple of our favorite medical stories that were sent in by listeners.
So our first story comes from Jessica. I started doing a [00:59:00] thing. I have, I, I haven’t read these beforehand. Oh. So I’m just gonna like, do it. We’re just gonna listen to it, see, and we’ll see, see what happens. What was that
Kristin: thing? You know, in u i l when we were kids and we had those academic competition competitions there, there’s a speech one, but there was one where you like, I thought there was one where you had to read something unseen like this.
I thought this was an event in u I l. Oh, was it? And you got judged on your performance.
Will: Well, do people know what u i L is? Was that
Kristin: what all stands for? Was that just a Texas thing? It was an academic competition. I have no idea. Like you said you do in high school. Dunno what it stands for anyway. Yeah, middle school, high school.
It was like Olympics for nerds. Well,
Will: there was one that was, I loved it. There was one that was called Ready Writing. I did that
Kristin: one did, did that. I was not to brag, but I, I, I got some awards in ready
Will: writing. Very good. Mm-hmm. Where you get a prompt and you have to immediately write something about it.
Yeah. Like a, like a, so maybe it makes sense. I have have one for, for reading.
Kristin: For reading, yeah. Probably it’s more about like your performance, you know?
Will: Okay. Yeah. Congratulations.
Kristin: I might, I might be mixing two events together.
Will: Fan story number one [01:00:00] from Jessica, you don’t
Kristin: care anymore. Hint taken
Will: when I was pregnant with my first child, I got home from a run and noticed some vaginal bleeding and wasn’t sure if it was a concern.
It was a Saturday, so I didn’t think I’d be able to call the clinic of my OB obs obstetrician. I now realize I could have called the hospital and connected with the on-call, but I didn’t know that then. That’s interesting setup there. That’s an important point too. Something happen.
Kristin: Yeah, right, like you assume everyone knows that that that true, but no, not everyone
Will: knows that we didn’t have awesome insurance, so I didn’t wanna rush to the er, but I also didn’t want to ignore it if there was something to be concerned about.
My sister in-law is a life flight nurse and got her start and labor and delivery then in the nicu. So I called her and asked what she thought. After I got off the phone with her, my husband asked what she said. I told him she wasn’t concerned about the by the amount of blood and that it was probably from switching things up in the bedroom since my body had changed.
He looked horrified and said, You told my sister we had [01:01:00] sex and I was like, it was relevant to what was going on. And I’m like seven months pregnant. I think she knows. My obstetrician thought it was pretty funny and teased him about it at the delivery. I love getting teased about it. At at the, yeah, at the delivery with the doctor and nurses and everybody present.
That’s a good one. Thank you Jessica. Hello. Um, so we have story number two comes from Jillian. I’m a phlebotomist slash lab assistant at my local county hospital. I had to draw a patient in the er. I walk in, introduce myself. I came to get some blood from ya rubbing the sand sanitizer in reaching for the lilac covered colored gloves.
Not covered gloves. That would be weird. And the patient asks, can you take my legs off? My brain screeches to a halt. I’m thinking I. Can’t have heard that. Right. What else could it have been? Because I clearly heard that wrong. My brain starts moving again. Oh, did you mean take the blanket off your legs?
That makes much more [01:02:00] sense. Right? I clearly see two legs under the blanket, white tennis shoes peeking out from under the blanket. So I lift the blanket up off the patient’s legs to see two prosthetic legs from the knee down my brain kind of crashes.
Kristin: Error 4 0 4 page not found. It says, I say,
Will: I say, oh, crap.
Uh, they really want me to take off my le take off their legs. My inner monologue says as words start to form, I say, um, I, I, I don’t know how, just push the button on the side. The patient tells me I push said button and boom, I’m holding a leg.
Kristin: Now there’s a sentence for
Will: you. Where do I put this? I’m thinking, I put it on the, put this leg. I put it on the floor, standing up at the foot of the bed. Quickly detached the other leg and set it next to its twin, the patient size with relief. And so do I. Phew, I can get the blood and get the heck outta here.
Kristin: I don’t think that patient’s going anywhere for a bit. [01:03:00]
Will: I think I would. I, I’m sure like, you know, patients do like to like, play little practical jokes on people. Yeah. You think that’s
Kristin: what it was? Cause that was my question is why would you need to take your legs off to get blood drawn?
Will: Well, I don’t know.
Yeah. Maybe it was just like a, oh, maybe it seems like it’s more comfortable with the legs off. I don’t, I don’t know. I, I have no idea. But, um, you never know what you’re gonna encounter. Boom. I’m holding a leg during a day as a medical professional. Boom. I’m holding a leg.
Dr. Oren Gottfried: Um,
Kristin: has anyone ever played a prank on you?
Any of your
Will: patients? Oh gosh. I mean, I probably, um, I, and I can’t think of one. If I do think of one, I’ll, yeah, you have to report back. I’ll tell everyone, uh, thank you for those stories, Jillian and Jessica, send us your stories. Knock knock firstname.lastname@example.org. We’d love to hear those. And thank you all for listening.
Let us know what you thought of the episode. If you have any feedback, we love to hear. If you have any story ideas or guest suggestions, there’s lots of ways to hit us [01:04:00] up. Email usk, knock email@example.com. Visit us on all the social media platforms everywhere. Kick it with us and our Human Content podcast family on Instagram or on TikTok at Human Content pods.
Shout out to all the wonderful listeners leaving feedback for us. We love to see that. We’re like, how many months into this are we? Oh boy. Like four or five months into this podcast. Things are going. Things are, we’re really having a good time with this. And, uh, all of you are too, it sounds like. Um, we love hearing your comments.
Uh, if you comment on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube, we can give you a shout out like Mal d on YouTube said, from one emergency medicine miraculous save to another. I wish you a healthy heart and long, fulfilling happiness with your lovely, beautiful wife. Your humor helps, uh, unite physicians, teachers, students, clinicians, and researchers alike.
And we need more mutual understanding, kindness and support. Laughing together is an amazing way to achieve that. Amen to that. Godspeed, Dr. [01:05:00] G, may all of us have a doctor like you or, or your lovely guests and may all specialties get our own Jonathans. I, I thank you. That’s such a thoughtful thing to say. I really appreciate that.
And, um, uh, I, I totally agree. Everybody should have some sort of Jonathan. Mm-hmm. You know, either chat g p t version or the real one. I don’t know. Uh, but thank you again for that, Mel. We have full episodes of this podcast on YouTube every week at my YouTube channel De Glock Flecking. We have a Patreon with lots of cool perks, bonus episodes where react to medical shows and movies.
Maybe we could do some of the ones we talked about today. Hey, should hey, huh? Yeah, that may be a little elementary, maybe a little Chicago med. I think we maybe have done Chicago one. I’m not sure. I wouldn’t mind seeing the gasoline guy. I don’t know. Uh, but uh, you can come on the Patreon, hang out with other members of this, of the Knock, knock high community.
We’d love to see you there. Uh, early ad free episode access q and a livestream events, much more. [01:06:00] patreon.com/glock and flack and or go to glock plan.com. Speaking of Patreon, community Perks, new member, shout out Barbara V and Phoebe J Hello. Hello. Well, welcome to our community. Shout out to all the Jonathan’s, as always, a virtual head nod to you all.
Patrick Lucia. C Sharon s Omer, Edward, k Stephen, g Ros Box. Jonathan, F, Mary and W, Mr. Granddaddy, Caitlin. C Brianna, L Dr. J Chare, w, Jonathan, a Leah, d k, L, and Rachel l Patreon, roulette, where we give a shout out to our random emergency medicine level Patron Alyssa, a thank you. Thank you for being a patron and being part of our community here.
Uh, and thank you all for listening. We are your hosts, will and Kristen Flannery, also known as the Glock and fls. Special thanks to our guest, Dr. Orrin Gottfried. Our executive producers Will Flannery, Kristen Flannery, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shanti Brook. Our editor and engineer is Jason Portis are Our music is by Omer Ben-Zvi.
To [01:07:00] learn about our night knock highs program, disclaimer and ethics policy, submission verification, and licensing terms and HIPPA release terms, you can go to glock and fleck.com or reach out to us at night. Knock firstname.lastname@example.org with any questions, concerns, or little medical jokes, puns, whatever you wanna do.
Knock, knock High is a human content production.
Will: knock, knock.
Hey, Kristen, do you know why I got into medicine in the first
Kristin: place to spend your evenings on documentation? Of
Will: course. Uh, no, actually that never even crossed my mind. Weird. I got into medicine to actually take care of patients to, to be able to form relationships with them, and that is a better reason and care for them to listen to them, to actually look at their eyeballs while I’m treating their eyeballs.
Well, I would
Kristin: hope that you look at where you’re treating. It’s an
Will: important part of being an ophthalmologist and it’s easier than ever with the nuanced dragon ambient [01:08:00] experience, or Dax for sure. This is AI powered ambient tech technology. It’s just in the room with you and it helps you be more efficient and reduce clinical documentation burden.
Uh, it basically lets you get back to being a physician and practicing the way you wanna practice. So it’s like
Kristin: having a Jonathan.
Will: It really is. To learn more about the Nuance Dragon ambient experience or Dax, visit nuance.com/discover. Dax. That’s N U A N C e.com/discover. Dax,
you dropped it.