Depression in Medicine: It’s Ok To Ask For Help | Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee

KKH Trailer Wide


[00:00:00] Knock, 

[Singers]: knock, 

hi! Knock, knock, 

Kristin: hi!

Will: Hello, everybody. Welcome to Knock, Knock, Hi! with the Glockenfleckens. I am Dr. Glockenflecken, also known as Will Flannery. 

Kristin: I am Lady Glockenflecken, also known as Kristen Flannery. I’m in the process 

Will: of legally changing my name. Oh, I didn’t tell you that. 

Kristin: Oh, okay. Well, you know, it’s a pain in the butt. Yeah, I don’t see you following through on all the paperwork for that.

Is there a lot of paperwork? Oh yeah. Really? There’s a lot. Yep. 

Will: You gotta change like all your Cause the change is everywhere. You gotta change your like, driver’s license. You gotta do that. You gotta do all your credit cards, bank accounts, 

Kristin: I mean literally anything with your name on it. Think of all the things that exist with your name on it.

Yeah, it’s a lot. Why would anybody do that? That’s what I was saying, you know, like 14 years ago. 

Will: Uh, so. We have a live show coming up. 

Kristin: We sure do! Oh, we love [00:01:00] the live shows. They’re a lot of fun. 

Will: So much fun. And actually, it’s good we’re talking about this because, it got me thinking about it just because of our guest today, Dr.

Anthony Chin Kwee, who’s a storyteller. And that’s what we do during our live show. We do. It’s a story. It’s like a hour and a change, long story that we tell using Some characters and some monologues. 

Kristin: multimedia memoir stage show. That’s right. I think that covers everything. Oh, I didn’t put in the characters.

I gotta figure out how to work them in. There’s characters in there too. Yeah. I have 

Will: a lot of dressing changes I have to do during this show. It’s true. Uh, which, uh, we’ve got it down by now because we did three very successful shows in, uh, Southern California in December. And now we’re, we’re trickling out some more.

Yes, that is right. So, uh, we’ve 

Kristin: won this weekend and then don’t worry. Uh, we will have more later in the year and we will have, uh, details coming out. March 

Will: 24th at 7 PM in Irvine, the Irvine [00:02:00] Improv. All right. We did, uh, we did a show there in December and it was so much fun. Sold out very quickly. So make sure you try to get tickets if you haven’t already.

Uh, but if not, like we’re, we’re taking this elsewhere too. So we’re going 

Kristin: on the road later this year, 

Will: we’re trying to, we’re, we’re trying to nail down dates and venues and, and, and it’s, you know, we do have like a family and like jobs and stuff. So it’s, I’ve got to work around that, but we’re trying to work around it.

So we’re talking maybe like 10, 12. City something like that. We’ll see. Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll have all 

Kristin: the info on our website as soon as we know Glockenflecken. com slash live 

Will: as soon as we know you’re gonna know yeah Glockenflecken. com slash live check that out But uh March 24th 7 p. m. Irvine improv come on out and our guest today is A guy that’s done a lot.

He’s, he’s, he’s, uh, he went through otolaryngology training, med school, residency, uh, [00:03:00] practiced for a few years and then decided to leave medicine to Find himself a little bit more and pursue his creative side to pursue his creative side Which medicine tries to get rid of 

Kristin: it sure does 

Will: and and I’m glad it really it’s to the benefit of so many people Because yeah, he has uh, he’s worked on done some writing on TV Grey’s Anatomy.

Yeah, the resident resident and also though came out with a book last year Yes. Called, uh, uh, I Can’t Save You. I Can’t Save You. It’s a critically acclaimed book. Like you go on New York Times, Washington Post, they’ve, they’ve talked about this book. Fantastic memoir. Um, and. Yeah, 

Kristin: he’s an excellent writer, very creative storyteller.


Will: He’s also an award winning storyteller with The Moth. We talked a little bit about that. Yeah, big guy I really want it. We should do it. We should do it. 

Kristin: Do they have like partner moth? Can you do it? I have only ever seen solo performances 

Will: [00:04:00] We could just do, we’ll have to draw straws, do our own. No, just do our own separate things.

You know, our, our, our recounting of our story is quite different. 

Kristin: It’s different. You don’t remember any of the parts that I talk about, so Exactly. I call dibs on those. Exactly. . 

Will: All right. So we had a, a wonderful conversation with Dr. Chinwe. Um, should we get to it? Yes. All right. Here we go.

Today’s episode is brought to you by the nuanced Dragon Ambient Experience, or Dax for short. This is AI powered ambient technology that helps physicians be more efficient and reduces clinical documentation burden. To learn more about how DAX Copilot can help you reduce burnout and restore the joy of practicing medicine.

Stick around after the episode or visit nuance. com slash discover DAX. That’s N U A N C E. com slash discover D A X.

All right. We are here with Dr. Anthony Chin Kui. Tony, thank you so much for joining us. It’s a [00:05:00] pleasure to have you on. Guys, I’m so thrilled, thanks, thank you so much for having me. This is, this is really exciting, but I got, I gotta start with, um, I’ve been thinking about this for a while now. Alright, so, uh, can we, because you did, you went through training in otolaryngology, can we rank the five senses?

Let’s just get this, let’s just get this out of the way. I’m an ophthalmologist, you know, you trained in otolaryngology. I feel like we got to do this. We got, we got, let’s go. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Let’s, let’s talk senses. All right. Let’s, let’s refresh the five senses for everybody out there. It may be including me. Um, so we got what?

Sight, hearing, touch. Yep. Taste. Taste. And smell. 

Will: And smell. Yep. Ooh, okay. Tell me what you, tell me what you would go with. We’ll see how close we are. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: I mean, if we’re ranking as far as like, which ones we think is like the dopest sense or which one we could not [00:06:00] live with, like, we wouldn’t want to say we can’t live without, but which one we really don’t want to lose?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, personally, I’m a big fan of eyesight. And I know that You know, it’s not part of my specialty anymore. Historically it was, but, um, I, I’m going to go with eyesight at the top. Um, then I’m going to go with hearing, uh, because I, you know, I understand the importance of, of the inner, the inner, outer and middle ear.

It’s all very important. All the segments. And I’m a music lover and audiophile, so that’s important to me. Um, I’m gonna go with smell over taste. Um, because if you lose your sense of smell, you lose your sense of taste also, so. Oh, right. They kind of go hand in hand. They go hand in hand, so I’m just going to keep the smell if I can keep them.

Um, I’m okay with touch being at the bottom. [00:07:00] I often think about life without the sense of touch and the shenanigans I could get into, but. I don’t know. 

Will: I don’t know, that’s. A bit much, much higher risk of burning yourself. Yeah. Injury. Generally, just injuries are. Yeah, you like. Feel 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: awesome until like, you have lots of festering wounds that you don’t know about.

I thought for 

Will: sure we’d have some arguments, but I feel exactly the same way. Oh, I don’t. Oh, really? Yeah. You’re, you’re, you’re different. What, what are your, what are your favorites? I would 

Kristin: still probably put eyesight at the top, but I don’t know. I could do, um, without smell and taste. Sure. Take them. Like, just get them out of here.


Will: probably has touch higher up. 

Kristin: I have touch higher up. And then, you know, I was thinking I could do without my hearing because I get really overstimulated by noises. Like, that’s very, it’s stressful to me when there’s a lot of noise happening. But then you made the point about music and I listen to a lot of podcasts.

and audio books, and I am a podcaster. So, you know, that might be a problem. [00:08:00] I mean, there’s workarounds, right? Of course, there’s workarounds. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: There’s ways to make life wonderful with lots of these things. 

Will: Yeah. I’m glad we could go through that because I’ve certainly had my fair share of arguments with otolaryngologists and, and about this.

So, you know, I think, uh, we’re all coming, we have very valid arguments there. Yeah. I’d like to be able to turn 

Kristin: my hearing down though. Like, that’d be nice. Just, just a hearing aid, but in the opposite direction. Yeah. Well, I think, I 

Will: think they have that. They’re called noise canceling earphones. Well, I have them.

Kristin: That’s why I use them a lot. You’ll see me down in the living room in the evenings with the family around. Wow. I’ve got my, my noise canceling headphones on just being a mom. You have just invented technology 

Will: that already exists. Wow. No. 

Kristin: No, I want to be able to just like turn my ears. I don’t want to have to wear.

I see. Yeah, I see. Turn 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: your actual ear down. I don’t think we got that. No, 

Kristin: that’d be nice though. I’d like to be able to turn them all down a bit, except for my eyesight. I can turn that up a bit. I’m [00:09:00] pretty blind. 

Will: Yeah, that would be nice for you. So, uh, Tony, let’s, let’s go back and, and I want to just give our listeners just an idea of who you are, where you came from, your upbringing that really kind of led you into a, a, at first, initially a career in medicine.

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Okay, well, let’s yeah, let’s do the the short version and if you guys find yourselves intrigued by any nuggets You can stop sure. We will just wave your hands around and we’ll we’ll circle back. But um, yes, I’m from New York City I grew up in Brooklyn my family Is kind of a West Indian immigrant family So my dad’s side is from Jamaica.

My mom’s side is from Trinidad. That’s sort of Uh, one of the mixes you’ll see a lot of in Brooklyn, New York, uh, a lot of West Indian immigrants there, but um, yeah, I was just always a smart kid and in, uh, that culture that I come from, as is the case with, uh, [00:10:00] many, uh, immigrant cultures, when you’re the smart one, you know, there’s only a couple of paths that your community expects you to take.

Um, and it’s not even like they pressured me. It’s just, that’s all I kind of knew. It’s just, Doctor, lawyer, engineer, you know, those are the big ones if you’re the smart kid in the family. So I, you know, went, just gravitated towards Doctor, medicine, I could do the math, I could do the science and, you know, you know, kept that up through, you know, high school and, uh, for college, I was at Harvard and I was trying to do all that stuff, just keep it going as well, um, realized I really loved teaching while I was at, uh, in college, um, did a lot of those programs, but kept up the pre med stuff and then, um, yeah, um, 

Will: Now, did you maintain this undercurrent of, of art?

Artistry, because you’re, you know, you like to write, obviously, we’re going to talk about your book. Um, you love storytelling and entertaining. And, um, and so how did you keep that alive? Cause that [00:11:00] can easily get kind of squashed in medical education when you’re on that path. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yes, um, glad you brought that up, because it did get squashed, and it’s very sad.

Um, on the way, like, growing up, I was super artsy, like, I’m a very artsy, performy kind of guy, so I love playing music, and acting, and singing, and dancing, and all that stuff. stuff, I was in musicals and in college I was in acapella, of course, and just, you know, held that down. way too much, you know, we don’t have any 

Will: background music on this, so we might have to, I have a game for us to play later, but we may switch over to just having you acapella something.

We’re just gonna, we’ll do the serenade. Um, 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: yeah, but um, yeah, it was just, I loved that stuff so much and it kind of, I didn’t realize how much I needed it in my life until it started to get squeezed out. And when, especially when I went to medical school and, you know, just you’re around the hardcore science nerds, you know, like that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s where you’re [00:12:00] at.

And you get to a point where, um, if you engage in anything that people can deem a distraction from your studies, um, then you’re kind of looked down upon. And so my, you know, the things I really love to do, I kind of had to put in a corner and start keeping quiet. And that really started in med school and, and, extremely so in residency training, um, where there were like actual consequences to like, if they hear you were, you were like reading a book for pleasure and instead of studying, you know, that goes on your permanent record.

So it’s super cool. So yeah, I don’t do anything fun anymore. Um, but yeah, it’s just, I, those are parts of me that were always really important that I had to start neglecting in order to succeed in medicine. Um, which I didn’t realize, I didn’t realize just how much it was harming me until, you know, the medicine wasn’t enough and I was really struggling.

Will: Yeah, and I want to explore that a little [00:13:00] bit because residency is, no matter what residency program you do, it’s challenging. It’s, it’s, it’s all, it’s very, very difficult and it can lead you to a dark place in life at times. Um, and, uh, and so what was it that. When did this, if there was a switch that flipped that, that kind of told you, okay, I need to, I need to either leave medicine or I need to just, I need something to change to allow me to, to, to explore that artistic side of my life.

That’s so important. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Well, um, for me, it was like, I remember it’s a very specific moment, um, and it was in the middle of residency and it was kind of at my, Rock bottom of residency, not just because of the workload and the lifestyle, the experience of residency, but also Like I’ve lived with chronic depression my whole life and it kind of you know, I haven’t always managed it I haven’t always known to manage it or how to [00:14:00] But I over the course of my life, you know, I’ve had these really intense periods of being really depressed and I had one of those periods halfway through residency training um, you know to the point that I was just, you know, barely showing up at work and you know, I failed my Step three which you’re really not supposed to and it’s like, yeah, you know, typically, you know people can pass and not worry about it, but I I didn’t study at all and because I was so You know, outside of myself and, and this is, 

Will: I mean, this is surgical residency.

How many years is otolaryngology? It’s like six years or something. It’s a long residency. Five years. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s long. Yeah. So this is second year, um, started having this stuff. And then at some point, um, you know, after I failed, uh, step three, uh, they told me that I couldn’t work anymore, um, until I passed it.

And so I was given this indefinite leave of absence, and during that time, I really had to figure out, like, what it was that I wanted to do with [00:15:00] all of this. Like, what was I killing myself for, you know? Um, and then I remembered just how much I loved, um, telling stories. And I really always have, you know, in whatever capacity.

Um, and I’ve always been told that I was pretty good at it. And so I was just like, maybe what I’m going to take out of this experience is. Uh, the story that I want to tell and I want to tell a story about residency and about training that doesn’t sanitize Kind of what it is what it has been for me and what I know it is for lots of My friends who are going through it.

Um, because I realized I’d never read a book like that that Takes the chance to make the author the doctor look bad You know, and, and really, you know, talk about the really difficult and grimy parts of training and the grimy parts of ourselves that we find along the way, and I just thought that honesty could be really, um, [00:16:00] helpful to other folks, um, and so from that point, you know, I kind of hope that helps.

Use that as my guiding light, you know at the end of the tunnel to get through the next couple of years and just started Yeah, just taking note of like moments that I knew were formative as they were happening and just like writing them down or you know When i’m dealing with something and like songs come to mind to start writing the song down.

I took a lot of photographs You know, um that I felt were emblematic emblematic of the moments that I was going through and didn’t know how it was all going To come together, but you know just the act of tapping back in to um, you know Something that’s really helped me understand the world, this, my artistic side, um, was enough, you know, to kind of make it through.

Kristin: Yeah, that’s interesting, because then you’re not just doing residency anymore, now you’re, now you’re doing research, now you’re in a project. Yeah. You know, now you’re living your story that you’re going to be writing. Yeah. So you’re doing, you’re doing what you’re doing for the story, not just for, you know, the piece of paper at [00:17:00] the end.

So that’s, that’s kind of interesting. A lot of people, I didn’t go to med school, but I did go to a really rigorous grad school program and, and decided halfway through or a little over halfway through that, that, that was not going to be the life for me. And uh, so I get it. A lot of people in med school, I think, you know, similar thing, or even during residency or even out when you’re out and you’re practicing and you’re like, you know what, this is just not the life for me.

It’s either not what I thought it was, or it’s just not for me anymore. Uh, and then it can feel so bleak because so much goes into it and, and there’s so much. You know, shaping not just, you know, of your skills, but of your, your mindset and your beliefs about the world. And, you know, like what you’re saying, like if you’re reading for pleasure, that’s somehow bad.

Like you get into these twisted mindsets. Well, you could be operating. You could be operating. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it feels like there’s too much to lose to be able to do anything else. And then that puts people in these really desperate [00:18:00] situations that sometimes, you know, don’t turn out well. So, um, I think it’s so powerful to hear stories like yours of somebody that says, you know what, I have medicine, but medicine is not going to be enough.

And so what can I do? 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yeah. And I think it’s just, I mean, it’s the fallacy of sunken costs, right? I mean, you put it, you put in so much time and money, the hundreds of thousands of whatever. And a sense of identity even. Yeah. It’s like in this particular profession is. It, it becomes part of your identity, uh, for better or worse, and to consider walking away from it.

And I’ve talked, because I’ve kind of become this patron saint of doctors who leave, and I’ve gotten a lot of people reach out to me and call, and just like, is it okay? Is it okay to walk away? Or Is there life after medicine? Yeah. And it’s just like, you gotta remember that there’s no experience that you go through that is a waste.

You didn’t waste those years. Whatever you gained from that time, you’re going to bring to whatever [00:19:00] else you choose to do. And it’s such a rich and unique and important experience for you that you’re going to make, you know, whatever it is you, you go into next really meaningful because of it. So don’t worry about, you know, don’t think about it as, you know, I wasted all those years and all that money.

Like what you got to worry about wasting is, you know, the life you have left. I mean, it’s just, I mean, I. You know, you know, we talked about depression and you know, we’re not gonna get we don’t have to get dark But we can be real like, you know, I dealt with suicidal thoughts and you know, really honestly I think I’m alive just because of luck a lot of the time like there were times when I was just very careless with my life when I was really depressed and that was kind of how I Engaged in it and a lot of times when that carelessness really could have gone one way or another Um, and then when you come out and the fog clears and you realize, like, man, you know, how flimsy is all this stuff?

How quickly can it all get taken away? Um, and I’m not [00:20:00] gonna spend these minutes, these moments, you know, not being, not trying to be happy, not trying to be fulfilled. I mean, we all deserve it and, uh, the, the profession shouldn’t, uh, make us feel like we don’t. 

Will: Did you, did you have people along the way when you were in residency that, that you felt you could reach out for help or that, that tried to help you?

Or was it, did that not really exist where you were? 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yeah, so, I think it was It was difficult for me where I was because I was I was in Detroit. I’m not from Detroit I don’t have any family there a lot of the people in the Midwest and then those programs are from the Midwest They have family kind of nearby 

Will: I didn’t but even it even in in the medical like in the hospital like you’re you know 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yeah, I had friends but I didn’t well, I didn’t trust them That’s kind of a it’s kind of a trick that residency plays on you.

You know, like I didn’t Especially like people [00:21:00] in my program. I didn’t trust them to know things about me because I thought this is just going to come back around, they’re going to talk, the world is so small. Um, and my friends who are, you know, in different specialties, um, you know, we were all in, in tough places in, in, in one way or another.

And so, I think what we mostly used each other for, um, were distractions. Um, that’s the easiest way. And so we didn’t dig into the stuff that all of us in some way were really struggling with because we didn’t have time, we were tired, it’s easier just to get drunk and, you know, do silly stuff. You know, instead of getting real.

It’s probably not the best 

Will: thing you want to do when you’re having, when you’re depressed, right? Yeah, 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: none of us, we all, we all think we’re smart enough to outsmart ourselves. So yeah. It was so tricky too, because in medicine 

Kristin: and especially during residency. You know, there’s this culture that you can’t have a weakness, you can’t have a sick day, you can’t have anything wrong with [00:22:00] you because if you need to tap out for a bit, all that does is put more work on everyone else, um, around you.

And so how could you, you know, I think it takes a very special environment and a very intentional culture to be able to create a culture where You can go talk to your resident, your fellow residents, or your program director or whatever and say, hey, I’m having a hard time. Because if you don’t intentionally create that, then it’s just, you’re just making life harder for everybody else if you need a break.

So I can see how it feels like you have to keep that to yourself, you know, because what option do you have? 

Will: Yeah, and so you You started to explore, you know, be yourself for the most part. You know, you had this opportunity. How, where, at what point did you say, you know, I just, I need to leave. I need to stop, you know, get out of medicine.

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Um, well, I think it was, well, I started my first job after residency, [00:23:00] um, and I knew within a few months that, okay, I’m not staying at this job forever. Like, just something about the clinic to OR to clinic to OR for the rest of my life, I, I couldn’t, I couldn’t do it. Um, and so, I, I stayed there for three years.

And then, um, I quit, and I was thinking, you know, maybe I need a different venue, you know, a different institution, you know, just to keep doctoring, um, and looked for some opportunities, nothing was quite panning out, so I was just gonna take some time, and, you know, I had my savings, it was all good, and, um, then one day I saw this, uh, advertisement on Facebook, uh, to be a medical advisor for Grey’s Anatomy.

And like as an intern, you know, um, and I was like, Oh, I’m quitting my job. I’m going to have a few months to myself. So I just did an 

Will: internship. It can’t be any worse than that. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yeah. So I was just like, kind of, you know, girding my loins for internship number two, whatever that may look like. [00:24:00] And it was just the coolest thing because it was basically me in the writer’s room of Grey’s Anatomy, helping the writers put the medicine into the show.

Because the writers don’t know it at all. And so, you know, just to be around that, and I had no idea that that was a profession really that people could do. And I was just like, what if I like want to do this? Like, can I get down with you guys? And it was the great thing, like. They have such a great writer’s room and a lot of the writers there, uh, have had full careers in different things before becoming writers.

And so they were really warm and helpful and kind of gave me tips on what to do and what classes to take and all this sort of stuff. Um, and so, you know, I, I started chatting with some folks, started writing on my own and ended up getting, uh, uh, a job as a writer on The Residence. Uh, when it was on the air and, uh, just not even just a medical consultant, but an actual Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Oh, that’s cool. And so I was just like, okay, [00:25:00] um, this is awesome. I kind of love this. And, yeah. What if I just do this? Let’s just do it and see what happens. So, so yeah, that’s when I was just like, you know what? Did you have to move 

Will: out to LA for this or were you? 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Well, when I was, uh, my job that I had was in Los Angeles.

Oh, okay. Yeah, and it was kind of like, it wasn’t by accident that I got my first job in Los Angeles. I kind of was just, you know, rolling the dice. I was like, hey, I haven’t lived there before. I’d love to live there. And it’s, I don’t know what may come out of it, but let’s just be nearby. You were intrigued by it.

Yeah. You’re like, Oh, 

Will: maybe let’s see some opportunities because it could come up there. So it 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: worked out and, you know, when people ask me if I miss it, you know, it’s just, I answer so quickly that I don’t. Medicine, you mean? Not a bit. If I miss medicine, like, it’s just, 

Will: I’m, I’m just fine. These medical shows [00:26:00] though, they’re.

They still struggle with the chest compressions. I, I’m just, I’m just saying, like, it’s, it’s, I’m sure that, I’m sure you’ve been banging your head against the wall at times, like, c’mon, we gotta, you know, pick up the pace here a little bit. Yeah, 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: no, well, here’s the fun thing about writing on medical shows, and when you’re a doctor, is that you gotta figure out where you wanna draw your line.

Right? Because one thing about being in writer’s rooms with creative people is saying no, you can’t do that isn’t a helpful, uh, thing to add to a conversation. So, what you’re always trying to do is be like, okay, let’s see what you want to go for emotionally, and I can see what I can do about helping the medicine meet you there.

And then, you know, You got to do things like compress things for time or you, you know, like labs that may take four days to really come back. You got to get back in two minutes. And, you know, this doctor because we only have so many doctors in the hospital has to be both a hospitalist and [00:27:00] surgeon and palliative care.

And let’s just, you know, um, I always thought about it as like, okay, as long as we’re not being irresponsible with the messaging, You know, then we can, if we gotta gloss over some specifics that only, you know, the people really in the know are gonna notice, you know, like, It’s okay. Because if we’re teaching people about, you know, these are the important things you have to know about being a end stage diabetic, you know, or, you know, teaching people about, we had this episode that I did where we’re talking about, um, uh, fat shaming in a hospital from your doctors, you know, and how that can affect your health and how you have to advocate for yourself, you know, like that’s the important part of it.

And if we got to, you know, gloss over the little stuff, like there’s a whole bunch of, You know, intubations that are just sloppy, but you know, I’ll be like, you know what, [00:28:00] let’s keep it moving. I don’t want to stress everybody out. Let’s get to the wholesome moral of the story. You’re not actually doing 

Kristin: surgery, you’re just making a TV show.

I mean, you can’t 

Will: wait 72 hours for culture results to come back and sensitivities, right? After the commercial 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: break, we 

got that. 

Will: Every now and then you might irritate like an interventional cardiologist out there somewhere, but it makes a lot of 

Kristin: sense. You know what they do get right, though, is I’ve not once ever seen an ophthalmologist in an ICU.

That’s true. They are doing that, right? Have you written any ophthalmology 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: stuff? Any eye, eyeball stuff? You know, I try. It’s hard to get ophthalmologists on to TV and that’s something I hope to rectify in my career. May I present one to you? Reach out. I’m happy to help. We gotta, I was like, listen, I know a guy.

Yeah. That was the eyeballs. He’ll just pass through. He’ll be 

Will: great. I’m saying if, if we could just, I would love to get some representation of eyeball land. And I think it matters, and we [00:29:00] don’t want you guys slipping through the 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: cracks. Yeah. 

Will: At least, at least just to help people understand what an ophthalmologist is.

That’s all. That’s like bottom line. Let’s just. I thought 

Kristin: you were going to say Vizine, but. 

Will: Oh, I mean if you if we could, uh, have a there you go have a vizine poison patient that I don’t know I don’t know if the house ever did that but um, yeah, I don’t know, you know That’s like a that’s like a true story.

That’s like something that actually oh, man Anyway, all right. Let’s hey, let’s take a quick break. I want to come back and and talk about uh storytelling the moth All the work you’ve done there. So we’ll be right back

Hey, everybody. Old news, but good news. We’re coming back to the Irvine Improv on Sunday, March 24th for our show, Wife and Death. 

Kristin: That’s right. We’re going to talk about the time you died. And came back to life. It’ll be a tragicomic multimedia memoir stage show extravaganza. 

Will: And some of my characters might show up too.

You’ll just have to come and check it out and see for yourself. To [00:30:00] buy tickets, click the link in the description below or you can visit glockenflecken. com slash live. We’ll see you there. Hey Kristen. What’s up? I gotta tell you about Precision. Tell me. This is really cool. It’s the first ever EHR integrated infectious disease AI platform.

Kristin: Oh, that sounds interesting. 

Will: Yeah, it’s for any specific patient. It’ll automatically highlight better antibiotic regimens. 

Kristin: Okay, so it can maybe help you treat the patient better and then also gets at this antibiotic stewardship issue? 

Will: Exactly. It basically empowers clinicians to save more lives while reducing burnout, just making their jobs easier.

Nice. To see a demo, go to precision. com slash KKH. That’s precision spelled with an X instead of an E. So P R X C I S I O N. com slash KKH.

All right. We are back with Dr. Anthony Chin Kui. And, uh, so Tony tell us, I’m fascinated by, by the work you’ve done on the moth. You’re an [00:31:00] award winning. Participant? Storyteller. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Storyteller. Award winning storyteller. Yeah, 

Will: yeah. That’s awesome. So, so give us a little insight into, well, how did you get started with the moth?


Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: So I got started, I have, I sort of have two, uh, two parts of my life that have been, uh, Uh, moth related. And the first one was, um, actually back in residency, back in Detroit. Like, after I had my realization that I kind of told you guys about, that I needed art back in my life, I was like, okay, where can I find it in this city?

Um, is there anything to kind of tide me over? I was like, I was like, let me go to like, this open mic, or like, this, this, and that, and then I heard about The Moth, which is just a storytelling competition that’s held once a month in pretty much every major city in the country. Um, and it’s usually at a cool lounge, or, or, or bar, or whatever, and you go there, and you put your name in a hat, and they pick ten people out of the hat, and you have five minutes to get up [00:32:00] on stage and just tell a story, hopefully on the theme that they chose for the night.

And I heard about this, and I had never been to one before, but I was like, you know what, I’m gonna try to, to get on stage. And I am going to pick a story, and I’m gonna practice it, uh, so that it sounds spontaneous when I do it. Like, because that’s how I like to be spontaneous, is very well rehearsed. Yes, prepare to be spontaneous.

So, I, I went, and I invited some friends, and I got up there, another buddy of mine got up there too, and we told these stories, and it’s just the best. Um, and just, yeah, this little crowd, and just, everyone’s normal, they’re laughing, we’re having fun, some folks cry during like these stories, like, they run the gamut.

And so I did. That one, and like, there’s a little competition at these local ones and I, I came in first place in that one, so I got invited to the all Detroit once a year slam, um, [00:33:00] which was just awesome. Like, it was at the Fox Theater in Detroit and just sold out, you know, Yeah, theater, and it was beautiful, and it was so much fun.

Um, and so, yeah, just the idea that, yeah, I was hooked. Yeah, and do 

Kristin: you get to keep developing the same story as you move up through the ranks there? Do you have to come up with a different story every time? 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Well, now, like, now that I’ve, uh, actually, in the last year since my book came out, um, the book, like, my publishers got in, got in touch with the Moth People, and they were like, Hey.

Like, what if you come back and you tell the story from your book? Um, and so yeah I adapted one of the stories from my book to get on stage and tell at what they call the the grand slams So basically it’s like they’re they’re best of the best Storytellers that go from city to city and you know, it’s always a big fun deal.

It’s usually just like five people um and I’ve told my story three times in three [00:34:00] different, uh, venues, same story, but, you know, as you perform it, you kind of figure out what works. It’s like refining, you know, stand up material, you know what I mean? So by the end, by the last time I did it, I was like, all right, I’m really like rocking this at this point.

And there’s some folks who tell the same story like 10, 12 times. You know, just they take them out on tour and people just love it. Um, and the only time you’re forced to stop telling one story is when they kind of retire it. Um, when they put it up on their podcast. Um, and so everyone hears it. So you got to come up with something, but it’s just such a wonderful organization.

It’s so sweet. 

Will: And the, and the, the idea is that these are, I mean, they’re, you prepare for it, but they’re not like, you know. You don’t memorize it and, and rehearse it over and over again. And isn’t that like, you can’t, you don’t want to, they don’t want you, you’re reading the story, right? Right. Yes. It’s got to be extemporaneous.


Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: story. But by the time, like if you’re telling the same story a [00:35:00] lot, you got to know the story. It’s your story. Right. Yeah. It’s just like, and just, uh, but they don’t want you to feel stilted. It wants, they want to feel like a conversation, like you’re on a campfire. Um, and so you kind of kind of maintain, you know, that sense of kind of playfulness with the audience and kind of staying loose out there.


Will: I’ve never been to a moth event. I’d love to go. Yeah, we should go. They have one in Portland? I’m sure they do. I don’t know. 100 percent they have 

Kristin: one in Portland. It’s a bigger literary city than it You know, then you might think it’s true. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: It’s Portland. If it like, yeah, it’s got all sorts of hearty stuff.

Yeah, it is quite crunchy. 

Will: So did, how did you, um, so, so did you. I guess springboard from doing that into writing a book. How did you, at what point were you like, Oh, I got to just write all this down and publish it. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yeah. So the book stuff was also an idea I had in the middle of residency. Um, and so all the notes and things I was taking for the next few years, um, I was [00:36:00] like, you know, I think I can make something out of this.

And so. After I graduated, I just started writing it from the beginning and I didn’t quite know what it was going to be. I was like, is this going to be like an expose of, you know, medical training and how trash it is? Or is it going to be something different? And I realized that what I wanted to do was tell like kind of a much more personal story about my journey through and And hopefully, you know, by making it real specific, um, I could make it ultimately more universal to folks, um, if that makes sense.

Um, and so I started writing in 2016, um, and the book came out in 2023. So it took a really long time to, to write it. 

Kristin: Yeah. Yeah. How did you decide whether to go like traditional publishing, self publishing? I think a lot of people are thinking about writing a book. These days, that’s a big question. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yeah. I mean, I think self publishing is always, um, always an option.

I, but I think we all want to try to get, [00:37:00] you know, uh, in with a publisher who can, you know, use their money to try to sell your book instead of your own. Um, but the process of getting there was pretty long. I mean, this first step was finding a literary agent and, you know, me not knowing anybody in the literary world, you know, I just looked up how to do it on the internet.

And it was basically Is there a YouTube video for how to find it? Yeah, just Google it. Yeah, there’s like, there’s quite a few and it’s just basically you write, learn how to write a little letter talking about you and the idea you have for your book and if you got, if you’ve written any of it, you know, you attach that bit and then you just send out blind emails to folks um, and see if they get back to you and oftentimes agents Either get back to you in like three months after you send it or they never get back to you at all And so yeah You just keep throwing throwing it at the wall and seeing what sticks and I think I was Looking for an agent for about a full calendar year.

Um, just getting the rejections and I think I like sent [00:38:00] query letters to the 60 or 70 people, um, and It’s like applying for 

Kristin: residency. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: You throw it all at the wall and, you know, you try not to let the failure get you down. Um, but, uh, yeah, there was one agent who really connected with it and thought it was cool, and we just went from there.

[Singers]: Yeah. 

Kristin: Very cool. Yeah. I, I have, you know Dreams of writing a book one day, but I don’t know when I’m gonna do that. Podcasting keeps getting in the way. Yeah, parenting, you know, little things. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Just a little stuff, no big deal. But yeah, I mean, that’s the thing, you know, the only way, like, yeah, there’s all the, the, the logistics of how to like, yeah, how to do it and how to find names and all that stuff.

None of that matters. You just got to write something, you know, um, and it’s, you know, You make it a practice, write a little bit, or think of some ideas, you know, you make that your Give yourself 5 minutes, 10 minutes a day and just see where it leads you. Are you still 

Will: writing for [00:39:00] TV? Are you? Yes. Well, at least 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: attempting to.

We’re attempting to work on the television adaptation of my book. So I’m hoping that we have some cool news to share about that. Um, but you know, last year was the Hollywood writer’s strike, which was just a wonderful and stressful time for everybody, just being out of work for five months. And now, now that it’s done, it’s even harder to find work.

So um, it’s a challenge, but try to, I’m still trying to come up with my own ideas, things that have nothing to do with medicine and stretching my wings, you know, as a storyteller and still love it. 

Will: Who do you, who do you want to play you in the TV show? Oh, man, 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: you know, it’s just, you know, take your pick of just the most handsome and charismatic people.

Yeah, I think you should 

Kristin: go straight 

Will: for Denzel. I mean, you know, 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: like, it’s funny. I’m sure, I’m sure that’s [00:40:00] a possibility. We grew, yeah, we grew up and kind of, I think in our heads. At least in mine, Denzel is always kind of like 30 years old and like just still handsome and just nailing it, and he’s not like the 70 year old guy who just is making it look easy.

But I mean, if Denzel wanted to, wanted to give a crack at it, you don’t say no. It could be a 

Kristin: retrospective, him telling the story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: There you go. Yeah, you go Denzel or bust. I think that’s very smart. Yeah. Shoot high. So, the book 

Will: is called I Can’t Save You, and, um, uh, you’ve, before we start wrapping up, I do, you have, you, you shared with us a few stories just from your life, because we like to tell stories in this podcast, um, and, um, And so you have one that’s, it’s in your book, if you wouldn’t mind sharing about your first day as an on call intern.

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Oh, yeah. So this is, um, so this is a fun one. Um, let’s see if I can do this quickly. So yeah, my first day on call was, The fourth of [00:41:00] July. Um, and so That’s terrible. That’s a terrible first day of fall. Yeah, that’s just right into the deep end. Oh my god. It is just into the deep end and I’m just like, cool, the most explode y and fire y holiday we have, just get me there.

Oh man. And I was on the plastic surgery service, so plastic surgery in the hospital means, in addition to face stuff, they also take care of hands sometimes. Um, and we were the hand specialists for the day, and I got a call from the ER while I’m, you know, hiding huddled away in my call room, like, willing my patron to silence, and they call and just like, Yeah, we got this guy with a dislocated finger, um, was riding his bike, he fell off.

We can’t get it back in. We’ve tried, we’ve had attendings try to pop it back. We’ve had other people. We just figured, you know, now’s the time for the hand specialist. And I’m just like, I mean, yeah, sure. You should totally call the hand specialist.

So hand specialist was me. And I [00:42:00] was like, cool. Never seen a dislocated anything in my life. And so yeah, so I was like, but they’re, they want me to try. And I was like, well, is this one of those times when I just call my senior resident? Who’s clearly out at a barbecue to come into the hospital and like help me do my very first consult I’ve ever got.

Um, and I was like, you know what? Like oh for one. Yeah, I was like, you know what? Absolutely not. I’m a step up right now. What’s the worst that could happen? Like he’ll continue flapping the breeze. So I Just have a wonky finger for a while. Yeah, he’ll have a wonky finger, no big deal. Um, and so I got onto YouTube, and I just typed in how to fix dislocated finger.

Um, and I studied, uh, in a YouTube rabbit hole for a solid ten minutes, and just went downstairs, and I was just like, you know, Just giving off the aura of someone who knew what they were doing, because that’s the most important thing is just, you know, appearing confident, even if you don’t know how to [00:43:00] do it.

And so I went in and I, you know, numbed it up. I did. I just went through the steps in my head so many times. You set the laptop down next to the patient.

But yeah, I went in there and I was like, was holding my breath the whole time, like trying not to poop my trousers. And. Managed to pop it back in. And the guy knew it immediately. And he loved it. And I was like, hey, That’s a win. I knew, I was nailing, I just, he just gave me a big hug and I like held on to him like inappropriately long and then just like, as I was leaving I was like, saw the attendings who had like failed and I was like, hey man, everything worked out fine, call me if you have any questions.


Kristin: got cocky. At that, at that point you were like, 

Will: you were like, you were thinking. Oh, this medicine stuff. Isn’t that hard? Oh, I love that it did 

Kristin: not come from the Harvard education. It came from [00:44:00] YouTube. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Absolutely. So yeah, that was my first day as a doctor responsible for other 


Kristin: That is hilarious.

I bet that happens so much too. I wonder how much of medical education these days is actually YouTube. Well, I mean, I have, 

Will: I, I remember stories from my attendings in residency. Who were, you know, they trained probably 20 years ago or so, but they had, you know, actual textbooks open, like while doing procedures.

Uh, like minor procedures. So, I mean, this is just the newest version of that. Yeah, that’s it. You know? And, and to everybody listening who might be horrified. Right. That this happened. Right. Rightfully horrified. This is not, this is not a good thing you want to hear about doctors. Yeah. Just, just keep in mind, like this was not a life or death situation.

There’s, there’s, there’s appropriate supervision, especially in July. Uh, they get a lot of people looking out because again, like I, I was, uh, my first rotation was [00:45:00] ICU as an intern. And so, and I, I started on nights. Can 

Kristin: I remind you he’s an ophthalmologist? Yeah. 

Will: Yeah. Yeah. Now, at that point I did have some, some.

He has some brain smarts. I had some general medical knowledge still rolling around inside my head. But, um, the other story you shared with us, Tony, was just, which made me laugh out loud alone by myself, uh, was, was a story about just how poor you were in residency. What did you? Yeah. We can all relate 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: to that.

Like, it does not pay well. Yeah, it doesn’t pay well. And I never, I wasn’t from a family that learned much about Money management, and so I was living above my means and also well just completely broke You know redlining the old checking account and so I was at the point sometimes where you know To pay for a gallon of gas in my car to get to work I was out of money and like, you know, the debit [00:46:00] card was an overdraft So I had to pay in loose change for gas And so I was like, cool, um, let me, you know, find, you know, enough quarters and dimes and whatever.

But, you know, for some reason, my travels around the country, you know, I had this jar of chains that I just always kept with me. But it was also like my jar of thumbtacks. That I also kept with me whenever I moved anywhere, so I just kept them together, um, cause that’s naturally where I did it. So, when it was time to pay for gas, it was just basically reaching into the thumbtack, uh, jar, and painfully and bloodily, uh, pulling out loose change, which I would then slap onto the, the, uh, gas station counter, um, in shame.

Uh, but, you know, you get a couple, you get a couple gallons in your, in your car and you can pretend to your, your colleagues that tell you what you could 

Will: have used that money for, buying a separate jar for your thumbtack. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: A second jar. Yeah, [00:47:00] no, that’s the kind of foresight that came to me only later on in adulthood.

Yeah. Although I would argue it 

Kristin: might be a good money management strategy because then you’ve got a really Need that money to be willing to go surfing through the bucket of thumbtacks. Oh, that’s good to access it

Conditioning there Yeah, I 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: mean I was I didn’t I wasn’t even thinking straight I wasn’t like oh man I really should like get a tetanus shot tomorrow cuz I don’t know how long these How many thumbtacks did you need? What 

Kristin: were you posting? I mean, 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: you know, like, you know, when you move and you, you, you’re, you take all your thumbtacks out.

This is back when, like, I was in young man mode and all my artwork was just posters. Posters, yeah. You know, the Bob Marley, all that stuff. So, like, I just had a lot of thumbtacks. I’m just 

Will: imagining thousands of thumbtacks in your house, your apartment, just holding up everything. And yeah, that bookshelf behind you, I, I, it’s hard for me to see, but I [00:48:00] think there might be a lot of thumbtacks holding that thing up.

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Countless, countless dozens of thumbtacks. Yeah. So that’s, that’s such 

Will: a great story about, I mean, cause you know, we could relate to just not having any money and you’re, you’re already in. At least in our case, you know, 250, 000, 300, 000 in debt. I still remember the, uh, um, uh, during my orientation of med school, the, we had a financial aid presentation.

And he was asking, or the, the big financial aid advisor was asking like personal finance questions and would throw out ramen packets to people who got the right answer. And I was just, I remember thinking, I am about to go in 200, 000 in debt. This is going to save me? This is ramen noodles. This is what it’s going to, this is what it’s gonna take yet.

I still, I did it. I was so excited. I got one of those packets and No, I’m so glad to hear it. Probably ate it. It was my dinner [00:49:00] one night, so yeah, it’s 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: just, yeah. Oh my gosh. the things we go through. I know, right? . Yeah. 

Will: So, so, um, uh, tell everybody, you know, where they can find your book, um, and anything else, you and what you’re up, up to now.

Yeah. That 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: it’s published. Yeah, no. Uh, so the book came out, uh, in April of 23, so it’s available wherever books are sold, at your local bookstores, try to support them. Also, if you’re, if you’re an Amazon Barnes Noble person, go buy it there too, it’s there. Um, the audiobook is also available, I hear it’s very good, because I do the Uh, narration.

Um, and so yeah, that was super fun and I’ve heard that people dig it, so if you want to hear me, uh, tell you about my silly life, then, uh, go to the audiobook. That took about a week. In the studio, we did like eight hour days. I always wondered that. Eight hours 

Kristin: of just reading your own book. Yeah, just you.

Yeah. Your 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: own book and just hearing yourself mess up words like [00:50:00] linoleum, um, cause I realized like, wow, that’s maybe the word I say the most in my book is linoleum. And you hear yourself say linoleum enough times you start to think you’re going nuts. It like stops being a word. Yeah. In your mind. Yeah.

It’s like, did I make this up? Yeah. Yeah. It’s just, it felt weird, but yeah, it was like a week in the studio. Yeah. Yeah. It was a lot 

Will: of, oh, that’s great. And are you, uh, and so what, what are you, what are you up to next? What’s, what’s in store for you? I obviously have the TV show you’re trying to get off the ground.

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Yeah. Trying to do that sort of stuff. It’s basically, I’m just working on creative stuff, trying to get some new things off the ground. So hopefully this year will be a fruitful year in that regard. Um, and there’ll be fun news upcoming. 

Will: Do you, um, uh, do you spend any time on social media? Do you, or do you try to stay away?

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: I, I don’t participate in it all that much, but I’m, I’m always lurking. So, um, yeah, I’m on the, the X slash Twitter. Um, I’m at [00:51:00] CQ underscore, underscore MD. Or if you just look for my name, Anthony Chin Kwee, I’m there and I’m also on, uh, Instagram. If you look up my name again, Anthony Chin Kwee, you’ll find me on there.

Will: Great. And again, uh, the, uh, the book is I Can’t Save You. Uh, definitely go, go grab it and it’s fantastic. By the way, like, uh, people are like raving about it, the reviews of this book. So congratulations, um, on all the 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: success from that. Thank you so much. It’s, it’s so wonderful. I’m just glad people are finding it and relating to it.

Will: I think it’s, you got a story that a lot of people can relate to. I mean, especially not, I mean, not just people in healthcare, right? Not just people in medicine, but, uh, a lot of people can relate to your story. And as far as medicine goes, I mean, it’s a tough time right now, right? People are, morale is like, I feel like it’s never been lower just among healthcare professionals.

And so, 

Kristin: yeah, we need to see some examples of, you know, how can you take your medical [00:52:00] degree, experience, education, whatever it is that you have, and, and use it to make your life whatever it is that you want your life to 

Will: be. Yeah, just find yourself and what makes you happy and, and be true to yourself and all of those things.

Just awesome lessons. And so thank you for putting that out there. 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for all you guys do. I follow all you do, and I think your journey to this point has just been so wonderful. It’s wonderful to see, and I’m glad that you’re giving back in all the ways that you’re trying to.

It’s just great. So thank you guys for all you do. 

Will: I don’t have an otolaryngologist yet as a character. I’m still working on that. Yeah. Maybe, maybe you can, maybe you can have him write it for you. Exactly. 

Kristin: You need to, you need to collaborate, have him write it for 

Will: you. That’s right. Yeah. I’m talking to a writer right here.

So, all right. Well, thanks. Thanks again for coming on, Tony. It was a pleasure talking to you. Yeah. Thank 

Dr. Anthony Chin-Quee: you guys so much. Have a great one.

Will: Hey, Kristen. 

Kristin: Yeah. [00:53:00] 

Will: How many mites is too many mites? 

Kristin: Uh, for me, one. 

Will: Well, I have eight. 

Kristin: That’s way too many. 

Will: That’s a lot of mites, right? 

Kristin: No one wants that many mites. 

Will: You know where you find these guys? I’m afraid to know. On your eyelids. 

Kristin: Yeah. I don’t want that. 

Will: I know, but like, if you ever have red, itchy, irritated eyelids, or if you get a crusty, flaky buildup on your eyelashes.

Could be because of Demodex Blepharitis. 

Kristin: Ugh. No. 

Will: It’s caused by these guys. I don’t know. I don’t want it. It’s just a thing that happens. They’re usually not this big, though. Well, that’s good. Usually. Usually? They’re much smaller than this, but they can still cause major problems. And so you need to go get it checked out by an eye doctor.

Kristin: Okay. 

Will: Don’t get grossed out. Get checked out. Get checked out. All right. Don’t get grossed out. Get checked out. To find out more, you go to eyelidcheck. com. Again, that’s E Y E L I D check C H E C K. com to get more information about [00:54:00] demodex 


Will: Well, he just makes me want to go out and tell all the stories.

Kristin: know it’s very inspiring for People like us that are kind of artistically inclined anyway. It just makes me want to go do all the things. I’m always preaching about that. Right. 

Will: Like just. You can’t, it’s so easy to lose yourself in medicine. 

Kristin: Yeah. Well, I don’t think it’s an accident. I think they take it from you.


Will: that was, that was definitely one of the lessons there. Uh, so we take a look at a story. Yeah. Let’s do it. All right. We got a shout out to knock, knock. I, Hey, in the story. This is, these are the, I eyeball specific episodes. We’ve been putting out every week. Uh, so this comes from Haley, who is a PA working in, uh, He Monk, a physician assistant working in He Monk.

Kristin: He Monk, Hematology, Oncology, Blood Cancers. 

Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, basically. Okay. Um, and some things she learned on, uh, the knock knock eye corneal abrasion, uh, episode. So we [00:55:00] have a, we had a patient in the hospital for inpatient chemotherapy who reported sudden loss of vision. I was able to test the vision with more than just a vision chart and by holding up fingers.

Something I talk about. I followed the steps you outlined and this patient had complete loss of light perception. Turns out he had involvement of his lymphoma invading the optic nerve, which is like a big deal. Yeah. You need that to see. I do know that. He surprisingly responded well to high dose steroids, which is one way to treat it for sure.

Our ophthalmologist didn’t come to the hospital, 

Kristin: but 

Will: we transported the patient to our local ophthalmologist’s office for an additional exam, which is fantastic service. You do get a better eye exam in the eye clinic, I will say that. 

Kristin: Right, because you have all the fancy equipment there to look at the eyes, is that why?

Will: That’s right, exactly. We have a lot, a lot of equipment. Thank you for, uh, thank you. For all you do both in the educational entertainment sphere. I’m here for all of it. Wishing you the best. Thank you so much And yeah, I I always talk about Checking vision. It’s [00:56:00] you go beyond the eye chart. A lot of people will call me.

I’ll be like Bayesian couldn’t see the big E on the chart. Yeah. Well, that’s okay. That’s great. Like what can I see right? There’s more Yeah, you should be able to see that. But even if you can’t see that, can you see hand moving in front of your face? Can you count fingers? Can you even see any light? Right?

There’s other levels of vision, perception, and I can just sense Kristen’s just, just glazing over. I 

Kristin: sure am. Just not like whatever. Other people find this interesting because people are listening to Knock Knock High, so I’m, I’m happy to accept that I’m in the minority. Yeah, that’s fine. 

Will: Thank you, Haley, for that.

And, uh, nice job. I’m glad you find him interesting. 

Kristin: Somebody needs to. 

Will: Send us your stories. Knock Knock High at human content. com. Uh, and, uh, thank you all for listening. Tell us what you thought of the episode. Uh, I love having writers on. I know! Like, they’re just very interesting. It’s just, the ability to write a book, I’m always so impressed by.

I know, it feels 

Kristin: like such a, like, [00:57:00] behemoth project to tackle. I don’t even know where you even start. I think 

Will: that’s the key. You just start. You just write. That’s what he said. You just write. Um, so, uh, yeah, there’s lots of ways to hit us up. Email us at knock, knock, human content. com. We also have all the social media platforms out there.

Uh, hang out with us and the human content podcast family on Instagram and Tik TOK at human content odds. Thanks to all the great listeners leaving feedback. Great feedback. And even the 

Kristin: mediocre listeners. Thanks to you 

Will: too. The mediocre listeners, as long as you’re leaving feedback, we love you. No, no, as long as you’re leaving positive feedback.


Kristin: yeah. If you have negative feedback, you can, if it’s constructive, we’ll take it. But if you’re just gonna be 

Will: a troll, then you can move along. That’s right. If you subscribe and comment on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube, we can give you a shout out like at Anne Lynn 8708 on YouTube said I Hope, I am adding to a revolution, Dr.

Glock. I give your episodes to my doctors, my patients, and the general public. Thank you for standing up for the humans. Aww, thank you, I love that. Yes, [00:58:00] definitely give my episodes to everybody unwillingly. That’s the best way to do it. Don’t take no for an answer. 

Kristin: Shove it down their throat. 

Will: Full video episodes of this podcast are up every week on YouTube at deglockenflecken.

We have lots of cool perks over on Patreon. You should check that out! Bonus episodes where we react to medical shows and movies, so you can hang out with us and our wonderful little community. Our little, uh, uh, our our Enclave. Our little enclave. Our village, if you will, where, uh, where you can find early ad free episode access, interactive Q& A, livestream events, Watch more patreon.

com slash Glockenpuckin Or go to Glockenflaggen. com! Speaking of Patreon Community Perks, new member shoutout to Heidi D! Hello Heidi! Hi Heidi! And shoutout, as usual, to all the Jonathans. A virtual head nod to you all. Patrick, The CSE, Sharon S, Omar, Edward K, Steven G, Jonathan F, Marion W, Mr. Grandaddy, Caitlin C, Brianna L, Kay L, Keith G, JJ H, [00:59:00] Derek N, Mary H, Susanna F, Mohamed K, Avika, Parker, Ryan, Medical Meg, Bubbly Salt, and Pink Macho!

Patreon roulette time. Random shout out to someone on the emergency medicine tier, Linda B. Linda B. for being a patron. Linda B. Linda, you can be the comp troller in our little community. How about that? We have an open position. What is a comp troller? 

Kristin: I was gonna ask you. What do they do? I’ve just heard that word.


Will: for listening. We’re your hosts, Will and Kristen Flannery, also known as the Glockenflecken. Special thanks to our guest today, Dr. Anthony Ching Kwee. Our Executive Producers are Will Flannery, Kristen Flannery, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke. Editor and Engineer is Jason Porteza. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi.

To learn about our Knock Knock Highest Program Disclaimer, Ethics, Policy, Submission, Verification, Licensing, Terms, and HIPAA Release Terms, go to Glockenflicken. com or reach out to us, knockknockhigh at human content. com with any questions, concerns, or fun medical puns or jokes or limericks. Anything else?

Kristin: Um, well you just really [01:00:00] put me on the spot. 

Will: Knock Knock High is a human content production.


Will: Hey, Kristen. Yeah. Healthcare workers are struggling these days. I 

Kristin: know, there’s a lot of burnout. A 

Will: lot of administrative burden that’s driving that burnout. Yeah, it’s certainly a major contributor. The clinicians spend up to two hours on administrative tasks for each hour of care provided to the patient.

Kristin: Yeah, that should not be the ratio. That’s not sustainable. No. 

Will: Fortunately. We have the Nuance Dragon Ambient Experience, or DAX for short. 

Kristin: Oh, is that why you’ve got your little friend there? Oh, you noticed. Oh, he did? Yes, 

Will: this is the DAX co pilot. He’s very cute. Isn’t he? He’s got wings. He’s there to fly us to a world of less burnout and more efficiency by giving us this AI powered Ambient technology that sits there in the room with you while you’re with the [01:01:00] patient and it helps you document the encounter so you can spend more time developing that patient clinician relationship.

Kristin: That’s right, you don’t have to be looking at your computer, it’s capturing it for you. It’s 

Will: great. To learn more about how DAX Copilot can help reduce burnout and restore the joy of practicing medicine, stick around after the episode or visit Nuance. com slash Discover DAX. That’s N U A N C E dot com slash Discover DAX.