Transcript
Will: [00:00:00] Today’s episode is brought to you by Microsoft dragon co pilot, your AI assistant for clinical workflow. Learn about how dragon co pilot can transform the way you work stick around after the episode or visit AKA dot Ms slash knock, knock high again. That’s AKA. Dot ms slash knock, knock. Hi. Hello everybody.
Welcome to knock, knock high with the glock and
Fleckens. I am Dr. Glock and Flecken also known as Will Flannery.
Kristin: I am lady Glock and Flecken, also known as Kristen Flannery.
Will: I watched the, um, SNL, you know, the SNL 50, we watched that together. Um,
Kristin: So
Will: I’ve been, the algorithm on TikTok has been feeding me SNL skits. Sure. Because my phone, our phones listen to us.
And [00:01:00] I just watched the, um, uh, Welshly arms hot tub, the Will Ferrell, Rachel Dratch, their lovers.
Kristin: I don’t know if I know this one. Remember I have a big black hole in TV and movies at around like high school to early college.
Will: This is like a, this is a classic Will Ferrell.
Kristin: I know, I’ve missed a lot.
Will: Who’s like a big influence on me with like in my life.
And, uh, this was a. Just a skit where him and Rachel Dratch were lovers
Kristin: in a
Will: hot, in a hot tub.
Kristin: Hot tub. They
Will: call it, it’s like he talks in this very like, I don’t even know how you would describe his accent, but I’ll have to show it to you. And so I was thinking like, well, how would we pronounce, if we were Will Ferrell in that skit, how would we pronounce our last name?
Flannery. Flannery. Flannery. Flannery. Lovers. The glockum fleckens. In the
Kristin: hot tub.
Will: In the hot tub. I don’t know, I love it. I [00:02:00] love it. It’s one of my favorites. Um, okay. This is a glock talk, if you haven’t gotten that already. So, um, we are just going to chat, catch up. And I’ve got one update for you. You’ve got an update for me.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: So let’s do a quick rundown. I’ve got, I’m going to tell you a little story about this morning, taking our daughter to school.
Kristin: Okay. Can’t wait. Oh boy.
Will: You’ve got an update about ARFID?
Kristin: I do.
Will: All right, and a
Kristin: previous episode about that. So I got an update.
Will: Um, and then there’s a, a, a thing that happened on social media about 10 years ago.
And you remember this, the dress,
Kristin: the dress, the infamous dress.
Will: It’s the 10 year anniversary of the dress. God,
Kristin: how does it go? So I know,
Will: right? 10 years, 2015. Yes. I remember this because it was like right after I joined like Twitter for the first time.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: And so it was like a huge thing on Twitter. Yeah.
Kristin: Wow, I can’t believe it’s been that long
Will: and then we’re gonna do that. I
Kristin: also can’t believe that these are the anniversaries that we’re marking as a [00:03:00] society, but okay,
Will: very important. Social media is a very different thing now. Uh, and then I have a health care news update and a little fun with our, with the characters.
Okay. All right. So first thing. So our, our, our daughter, um, taking her to school this morning.
Kristin: Mm hmm. Which one? 13 or 10? 10.
Will: Fourth grade. Uh, so I was driving her to school and I told her that I had a dream
Kristin: last
Will: night where the kittens that we have pooped in my shoes.
Kristin: Oh no! Okay,
Will: and it’s probably it was in my subconscious because I was doing laundry for like all day yesterday
Kristin: where the kittens are currently sequestered
Will: their sequester trying to get them used to our new the new environment.
Kristin: Yes,
Will: and it just. I guess I went in there after they had just taken a giant dump because like the whole day just it smelled awful in there.
Kristin: Yeah,
Will: and so it was like in my mind and in so anyway, so [00:04:00]
Kristin: Fresh laundry like
Will: I know So I subsequently had a dream where they they took a dump in my shoes and then our daughter She, like, had this, like, puzzled look on her face, I was looking under the rearview mirror, and she’s like, Huh, I, I didn’t think adults had dreams anymore.
Kristin: What? Really?
Will: Yeah, she’s like, that’s weird, like, grown ups aren’t supposed to dream, have dreams. I, I interpreted it as, like, a kind of, more of, like, a, a philosophical interpretation, like, Oh, yeah, sure. They don’t dream anymore.
Kristin: All their dreams have been crushed. All
Will: their dreams are crushed. So they just don’t cry.
There’s just no dreaming. No dreaming about adults anymore. Yeah, I wonder which
Kristin: way she meant. But I
Will: don’t think, I, I, I, I’m giving her a lot of credit there. I don’t think she meant that. Yeah. Um, and, and then I was like, well, yeah, like I, I have dreams sometimes. She’s like, well, I just, I assumed that all of your dreams would be about taxes.
Kristin: Yeah, [00:05:00] maybe the nightmares. So,
Will: so we don’t dream as adults, but when we do dream, it’s about taxes in her mind, like subconsciously, our thoughts are consumed by taxes.
Kristin: Well, I can see how she gets there. I see the logic.
Will: Do we, do we complain about taxes too much in front of her? I
Kristin: don’t think we complain about them, but they are just sort of ever present.
And it is a lesson we’re teaching them right now because we’ve hired them through our business. Right. And so they are learning about, it’s like time to do taxes right now. So they’re learning about it. And
Will: I would say our conversations about taxes in our house are not so much like, Oh, I got to pay taxes.
It’s more like. What the hell’s going on with our taxes?
Kristin: What is, what are taxes? How does
Will: this, what does this mean? Like, where does it come from? How do I understand
Kristin: taxes? Yeah. And
Will: then we just say, well, thank goodness we have a CPA. So anyway, we’re learning about [00:06:00] CPAs as well.
Kristin: That’s right. Hey, do you, what do you dream about?
Like, do you have a theme? Like, uh, do you have any recurring dreams or does there tend to be I
Will: did when I was little?
Kristin: Yeah, like when I had, um, I had night terror. It’s called night terrors.
Will: I had night terrors growing up my walking. Yeah. So I would, so I would, I would like be screaming in the middle of the night asleep and.
What I remember is my parents, I would wake up and we had our house growing up there. You could like walk do a circle around like the living room, kitchen, dining room. There’s like a circle. So I would wake up to my dad, like walking me in a circle, just like walking. Like that’s how I’d wake up like that a couple of times we were like outside like walk probably because I was screaming so much is like, let’s not, let’s not wake
Kristin: up the whole neighborhood instead of just our house, let’s let people sleep.
Will: Um, but I don’t remember what those dreams were. [00:07:00] I do remember a couple, they were like kind of like falling.
Kristin: Uh huh sure classic
Will: like maybe like on a, I remember one, I was in a car and for some reason we were like flying over a tree, a giant tree and then the car starts falling and it was scary and other ones like a, a roller coaster that was out of control.
Kristin: Uh huh.
Will: So it was like, kind of
Kristin: like,
Will: flying, falling, moving quickly.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: I don’t know that kind of thing.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: Um, but I would, I would say now I am. I kind of don’t dream much. I don’t know. Or don’t Well, yeah, but I don’t, everyone does. I don’t. But you may not
Kristin: right. You may not wake up in the correct part of your sleep cycle to be able to remove.
I
Will: want a dream expert on here. Let’s, let’s, ooh, that would be fun. Let’s someone fun. Let’s get someone talking about dreams here. Yeah. Do we need maybe like a sleep person? Yeah. I think we’ve had a sleep medicine. We
Kristin: should, we should do it again if we haven’t. Okay. Because we’ve got a lot of sleep issues in our family.
We have a lot to talk about. We could, we could ask them a lot of questions.
Will: Do you [00:08:00] dream?
Kristin: I do. It’s almost always nightmares. Uh, it’s either. Almost
Will: always nightmares.
Kristin: Yeah, like I can’t think of the last time I had a horrible dream or just even a neutral dream.
Will: Give me an example of a nightmare.
Kristin: Well, a common theme is, um, someone pursuing Us like me or a member of my family or, you know, some, a loved one, um, in a, in a, uh, with intent to harm.
Will: Is this a, like a faceless individual or is it like somebody that, you know,
Kristin: it’s, it’s just like usually just like. Men or monsters. Monsters. Monsters was more when I was a kid. But, um, now it’s men. Alright.
Will: Men have become the monsters. Who
Kristin: knows, maybe there will be a bear in there someday. And I’ll be like, thank god.
Will: Please. So that’s, that’s the, that’s the general theme.
Kristin: Yeah, somebody, somebody trying to hurt me or someone I love. [00:09:00] Also, I’ve had the following dreams too. Sure. But then the other really common recurring one is, I don’t know what it says about me, is I have, um, I am in college, but I’m me now. But I’m like back in college, and I
Will: forgot you had a test
Kristin: worse.
I forgot I had a class until it’s the end of the semester and it’s finals.
Will: Okay,
Kristin: and I have to show up and take the final and try to salvage.
Will: Okay, that’s super weird because I have also had that dream. Is that, is that like a, maybe that’s an adult dream now? Do other people have that?
Kristin: I’m really curious if any of our listeners
Will: have that dream.
I have had that exact dream. Yeah. Like you didn’t know you signed up for a class at the semester. Right. And all of a sudden, whoa, I got to take a final exam.
Kristin: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like either midterms or final or somewhere where you are like way behind. Whew. That’s stressful.
Will: It’s. The, the, the amount of psychological damage, [00:10:00] schooling and the, the way it works with tests and everything.
Kristin: Well, and we were good students, so maybe that’s why, maybe I wonder if this is like a high achievers, um, nightmare. I don’t know.
Will: I don’t know. I mean, you know, any low achievers you want to weigh in? I mean, anybody, I mean, testing is just stressful. Yeah, it’s like, and so I don’t know.
Kristin: Yeah. Yeah, those are my dreams.
I don’t know. I don’t have any nice
Will: eating.
Kristin: No, I don’t dream about eating. I try to think about food as little as possible.
Will: Well, tell us about the Arfid thing.
Kristin: Okay. Yes. Arfid update. So we had a previous episode. We had Arfid and Drew on to discuss. He has a social media channel where he tries to eat new foods because he’s trying to overcome his Arfid And in that episode, um, I mentioned that I had not been diagnosed, but I for sure have it because you just look at all the criteria [00:11:00] from the DSM and I’m like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Um, so. I have now since been officially diagnosed by a psychiatrist. Congrats. Thank you. Uh, it is a little validating on it, like, in seriousness, because, you know, I grew up my whole life with no name for this thing and no, like, everyone just thought I was difficult and a picky eater and all these things, right, that we used to think in the 90s and 2000s.
Um, so now I have an actual on paper thing that I can say, right, and that’s kind of nice because then you can go about like trying to, you know, Get support and get help, whatever. Does your
Will: insurance company recognize it?
Kristin: Good question. I guess we’ll find out. But also I have, I don’t even know if I told you this.
I have, um, started treatment.
Will: Oh, you just told me this.
Kristin: Did I?
Will: Yeah, like yesterday.
Kristin: No, no, different. I have started ARFID [00:12:00] specific. Oh,
Will: I did not know this.
Kristin: Yes.
Will: Oh, I’m glad you waited till the podcast to tell everybody. Yeah,
Kristin: see, now you can have a genuine reaction.
Will: What does that treatment entail?
Kristin: Well, I just started last week, so it’s very new.
It’s, it’s, I’m very scared because it is exposure therapy.
Will: Okay.
Kristin: So, but you go slow.
Will: Is this being done in a controlled environment? Like at your doctor’s done with my
Kristin: psychiatrist. It’s all, it’s virtual.
Will: Okay. Right. Okay. Got you. Telehealth. Yeah.
Kristin: But under the supervision of a psychiatrist. And last week he gave me the assignment to just keep a food log.
Right of like what I eat and the notice any sensory things about it and how do I feel when I’m eating it right so right now it’s just a bunch of like well these are all my safe food so I feel fine I’ve noticed that they are all mostly soft and smooth as a texture so that I do see that pattern already
Will: but do you want to turn this into a tick tock channel.[00:13:00]
Kristin: I know
Will: I don’t know
Kristin: I don’t know if I can
Will: the way you’re supposed to think this this day and age in society it’s like I’m going through a weird thing in my life
Kristin: Andrews already got that covered he’s he’s got that angle as
Will: if there’s not more than one person doing any given thing anyway
Kristin: I don’t know I’ll think about maybe there’s a way that I can I do care about like you know awareness and making people feel less alone
Will: so the angle here is though it’s like you’re this is the like clinical.
Like you’re going through the
Kristin: actual
Will: treatment of it. Well,
Kristin: true. Cause he’s just like, yeah, he’s
Will: just trying things and which is also good for like exposure to this idea of ARFID, but it’s, I think it’s a little bit different path that you would be taking anyway. All right.
Kristin: Well, I’m scared is the takeaway.
I’m very, I’m not excited about this. You’re going to be
Will: like in our kitchen. Like Trying things. I
Kristin: don’t know how it’s going to [00:14:00] work. I, I like to that level of specificity. I am not sure yet, but I know it’s going to be just very gradual. All right. Exposure to new foods. Who knows how long this takes?
Will: When are we getting to broccoli?
Oh, god. Brussels sprouts.
Kristin: You know, just.
Will: No,
Kristin: let’s keep our expectations reasonable.
Will: All right. Gradual. How often do you, how often, how often do you meet with this person?
Kristin: Um, it’s like once every two or three weeks.
Will: Okay. And then is this like a ARFID specific? Like this is what they, like they are well versed in.
Kristin: They are. A nutrition, like they’re a psychiatrist, but their specialty, I’m going to get this all wrong, all the terminology, because I am not in the medical field, but like their specialty has to do with like nutrition and yeah, so they have,
Will: they like have a focus as part of their career on like how
Kristin: nutrition affects mental health and all of [00:15:00] that stuff, but they’re like M.
D. Um, so yeah, and I think I am, The first person who has brought our fed to his attention. Um, so see, even within professionals, it’s still not like super, they’re
Will: not aware
Kristin: they knew of it. I should write. So maybe it’s not bringing it to his attention, but I’m the first patient that he’s seen with it. So he’s, he’s Learning about it, you know, because of me, I guess on the job.
Yeah, but it’s but it’s also just like he is trained in exposure therapy. It’s just exposure therapy for food rather than like spiders. Is
Will: he going to be listening to this?
Kristin: I don’t know. I haven’t asked.
Will: I don’t make a habit of if he doesn’t know who you are. And I don’t say then it’s I don’t I don’t make a habit of googling my patients.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever done that.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: So I don’t I think my face is not
Kristin: as [00:16:00] recognizable as yours to the medical professionals. Although
Will: you were recognized.
Kristin: I know it’s not on. It’s not Completely unknown, but it is far less known.
Will: Well, you know what will make you more known? Doing an ARFA therapy channel.
It sure
Kristin: would. Oh, geez. I don’t know. We’ll see if I get there. I don’t know if I can commit to that right now. That feels I’m getting like racing heart rate. I’m going to be flushing soon. That’s, that’s scary. So anyway, I’m doing that. Also, I have a correction to make on that episode. It was pointed out to me that
Will: we had some pushback on that one, didn’t we?
Kristin: Yeah, 11 person. Yeah, mostly people, um,
Will: felt supported
Kristin: and like seeing it was like other people that were like, Oh, my gosh, I didn’t know anyone else was like this. Thank you. Um, Well, well, it was that there were a few things in there, but one was, um, it is actually classified as an eating disorder. And I [00:17:00] think that I, because I am also learning, like I said, we did not have this information for most of my life.
Um, it is, I said, it’s not an eating disorder. It’s a feeding disorder.
Will: Oh,
Kristin: which is what, When I learned about it, that’s what the information was, but I guess now it is classified as an eating disorder. It just doesn’t have a body image component to it. It’s not about body image. It’s about like a food phobia.
Will: I see. Okay.
Kristin: So, I stand corrected.
Will: Oh, that’s good. That’s that’s helpful feedback, you know, because terminology is important.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: And so yeah, that’s uh, okay. So it is an eating disorder.
Kristin: I guess so.
Will: It makes sense.
Kristin: Yeah. I mean, it’s a it’s disordered eating. So sure. All right.
Will: Well, let me know if we need to start buying asparagus or something like
Kristin: I think that’s well down the road.
Will: Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, let’s see.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: Uh, you want to take a break? Let’s do that. All right. We’ll come back with a little healthcare news. Okay.[00:18:00]
Hey, Kristen.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: I’ve got some friends I’d like you to meet.
Kristin: I see that. You seem a little too friendly with them, I have to say.
Will: Aren’t they cute?
Kristin: Sure.
Will: With the little beady eyes and their little, little hands. The hands, the claws.
Kristin: I don’t know.
Will: Appendages. Okay. How about that? Yeah, it
Kristin: works.
Will: But anyway, they just like, well, they’d like to say hi.
Okay. Like to say hi.
Kristin: Okay. Wonderful.
Will: They’re not, they, Oh, look, the one sticking around.
Kristin: Sure is right on my mic.
Will: These little guys are a demodex and they live on your
Kristin: eyelashes
Will: and they can cause flaky, red, irritated eyelids.
Kristin: See, that’s not cool. That’s a party
Will: problem.
Kristin: You’re not welcome here. If you’re going to do that.
Will: And it’s caused sometimes by these little guys.
Kristin: Yeah, that’s rude.
Will: Demodex blepharitis, but you shouldn’t get grossed out by this.
Kristin: Okay.
Will: All right. You got to get checked out.
Kristin: Yes. Get checked out
Will: to find out more. Go to eyelid check. [00:19:00] com again. That’s E Y E L I D. Check. Dot com for more information about these little guys and demodex blepharitis.
All right, we’re back healthcare news. Yeah, it’s not really news. It’s just like something that I think a lot of people have known about for a while. Uh, it’s about UnitedHealthcare, of
Kristin: course, because
Will: like every day,
Kristin: every
Will: week, there’s something going on with UnitedHealthcare. Um, and this one is that. The Department of Justice is, like, officially investigating fraudulent Medicare claims from UnitedHealthcare.
So, this is the gift that, that Medicare Advantage programs keep giving.
Kristin: Okay, before you go further Do you
Will: know what Medicare Advantage is?
Kristin: [00:20:00] I kind of do, but I want you to explain it for people like me out there that may like I think it gets, but the PR brochure makes it seem like a very positive thing.
So what is it? So
Will: Medicare Advantage, and I don’t know if it came about. At the same time or because of the affordable care act, but the affordable care act certainly made it like exploded the possibility of doing this. So in order to try to get as many people on health insurance as possible, which is one of the things that affordable care, affordable care, the affordable care act tried to do, um, they expanded the.
This agreement between the federal government and private insurance companies. Does it, if it sounds like a bad idea, well, you’re right. It’s a horrible idea. And one of the worst, like. The Affordable Care Act did some great things, uh, you know, getting rid of pre existing [00:21:00] conditions, letting people stay on their parents health insurance when they’re, until they were 26, like those are like really good things.
It also did some really not good things, which is marrying the CMS. Which is Medicare, Medicaid, CMS with health insurance. It allowed private health insurance companies to get in the government funding business.
Kristin: And
Will: so, and so basically they have these Medicare advantage programs now, which is basically Medicare funded.
In part by, well, it’s, it’s, it’s health insurance. It’s private health insurance plans funded by the federal government.
Kristin: So is that what distinguishes Medicare advantage from regular Medicare?
Will: Yes.
Kristin: Okay. So regular Medicare comes where? Straight from the government? Yeah.
Will: CMS is federal government. Um, the Medicare advantage plans are sponsored by the private insurance companies, and so basically it’s, it’s [00:22:00] the private insurance companies.
Insuring seniors and then the money, basically the private insurance companies say, Oh, this claim costs this much federal government. You need to give us this amount of money for this claim.
Kristin: So
Will: like a senior goes for their diabetic checkup, they have this diagnosis, this diagnosis, this diagnosis. The insurance company will take that claim and show it to the federal government and be like, you need to pay us this amount based on the agreement that we have together.
Okay, so what apparently, allegedly, which this is not so far fetched that I mean, come on, it’s UnitedHealthcare, UnitedHealthcare’s doing is taking those claims, adding diagnoses.
Kristin: Who could have seen this coming? [00:23:00]
Will: To What we call like upcoding,
Kristin: like
Will: upcoding the claim to make it seem like it’s more like the patient is in worse health,
Kristin: right?
Because then the government needs to pay them more money.
Will: Government pays more money.
Kristin: For these other conditions, supposedly.
Will: Exactly. To the tune of, you know, billions of extra dollars of revenue that they’re getting through these Medicare. So now the
Kristin: federal government is getting the same treatment as the rest of us.
Not treatment, medical treatment, I mean, by UnitedHealthcare.
Will: Oh, well, yeah, yeah, exactly. So they’re feeling the brunt of it. And, I mean, you know, the whole Doge experiment with Trump and Elon Musk, like, that’s a whole other episode. But, you know, maybe they should look at. Medicare Advantage plans and try to figure out what the hell’s going on.
And, and yeah, you want to talk about
Kristin: government efficiency. Yeah.
Will: I mean, come on, this is, so [00:24:00] I have no preconceived notion that it’s actually going to result in meaningful reform. I would love if the department of justice can just like overhaul. Medicare Advantage and by extension insurance companies, I mean, they’re private companies, so there’s only so much the federal government can do, but maybe increase regulation, whatever, but in reality, because we’ve seen like this happen time and time again, it’s going to be like some hefty fine and then slap on the wrist,
Kristin: right, look the other way,
Will: and then it just like keeps happening, but in a slightly different way, so anyway, Okay.
Well, that’s
Kristin: fun and uplifting
Will: it’s it’s like, and, and I’ve had people on social media criticize me
Kristin: for,
Will: for focusing too much on health insurance companies as the cause of, uh, as the reason, the primary reason [00:25:00] why we’re in the situation we’re in today,
Kristin: what do they think it is?
Will: Well, it’s, it’s like. You know, it’s not just health and these are these, this is like the, the criticism being levied against me.
It’s not just insurance companies, you know, physicians, they cause problems too. There’s,
Kristin: you know, the
Will: government causes problems. So it’s like
Kristin: equating
Will: the, the overall problem that is us healthcare to like, oh, it’s, it’s just as much everybody else as it is insurance. No, it
Kristin: is not.
Will: And I, first of all, I’ve never once said that it’s just health insurance.
Cause I’m sure there’s a shitload of problems about, about the U S healthcare system.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: I just, it’s like the majority of it comes from companies who do shit like this.
Kristin: Swearing today, feeling strongly about it. I’m
Will: tired of, of people like kind of trying to like sweep this under the rug and like, then start blaming things.
Kristin: It is this black and white on the internet. Like [00:26:00] everything has to be either this or that, right. There’s no like nuance anymore. So it’s like, I think you’ve used this metaphor before. It’s a pie. And like, sure, there’s a slice that might be related to physicians, and there’s a slice that might be related to whatever, but like the, there’s like six slices that’s insurance,
Will: too many slices, too
Kristin: many slices, it’s a gross pie, it’s a fruitcake,
Will: and so of course, I’m going to focus the majority of my energy on health insurance companies because they’re causing the majority of the problems, in my opinion, and this just backs that up, and also
Kristin: in your actual life, because of your work.
Will: Yeah. Exactly, yeah. And
Kristin: your medical history.
Will: Personal life, everything. Yeah. I wanted UnitedHealthcare all my life.
Kristin: Well, we, we get on, we get hot about that topic.
Will: Alright. Should we, let’s move on to something like healthcare adjacent.
Kristin: Okay.
Will: Which is the 10 year anniversary.
Kristin: Oh yes. Of
Will: the dress.
Kristin: Yes.
Will: Do you remember, what do you remember about the dress?
Kristin: Uh, it cost an uproar. Yeah. [00:27:00] Everyone, it was even like on the Today Show and things, right? Like it started on Twitter or something, and then made it all the way to national news.
Will: I think it’s Twitter and just to, to age, like how far we’ve come in 10 years. Tumblr? Yeah. Facebook.
Kristin: Oh, okay. ,
Will: Tumblr. Which is still a thing,
Kristin: but
Will: Tumblr and Twitter is like, that’s where like it, it really got going.
Uh, I was, this is 2015, so we were in Iowa. That was residency. Yeah, so as an ophthalmology resident,
Kristin: Right. It was big news. I was
Will: not anything on social media. I like had an account, but I did not have a following. And so, but I still got, like, people in my real life are like, what’s going on here? What’s with this dress?
Kristin: Right.
Will: So what do you remember about it? What was the actual thing?
Kristin: Well, I remember somebody posted the dress A picture of the dress for some reason.
Will: What did you see?
Kristin: And it, some people saw like white and gold and some people saw blue and black.
Will: Yes, correct.
Kristin: I think I saw, I mean it’s [00:28:00] 10 years now, so could be wrong, but I think I saw white and gold.
Will: So did I. Um, do you want to dive into like the science behind it? I mean, it’s only only happened 10 years ago,
Kristin: 10 years ago, but it’s still like relevant. Ophthalmology. It
Will: is. It is. I could just do this. I could do this on knock knock. I maybe I’ll do it again on knock knock guy. Um, well, why don’t you do that?
Just
Kristin: the overview here and then you can save the details for that.
Will: So there’s, there’s, there’s three different options in, in the photoreceptors.
No, what,
Kristin: what
Will: basically boils down to is this thing called the Purkinje effect. Okay. So it basically says
Kristin: neurons. Yeah. Purkinje.
Will: Well, what do you think the, the optic nerve photoreceptors? What do you think this is? It’s all part of neurons.
Kristin: Okay. Yeah. Sure. It’s, it’s, it’s all in your brain. Making a connection.
Yeah. Yeah, it is. Purkinje as in neurons.
Will: As in neurons. Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:00] And so, um, neurons.
Kristin: Neurons.
Will: Um, so basically the Purkinje effect is. As you go into a more dark adapted, um, state with your eyes, um, your perception of color or your moves toward a longer wavelengths. So it just kind of, you move toward a, a kind of deeper, darker color, like adaptation.
And so. With the dress, it’s, I think it’s absolutely white and gold, but because I don’t
Kristin: even remember now what the actual colors
Will: are, I
Kristin: see blue and black in it now,
Will: and okay, so the reason people interpret it as blue and black is because it’s backlit, and so when you’re looking at the dress, if you’re, you are seeing it in shadow, you’re [00:30:00] And that’s going to trigger more of your dark adapted state.
Kristin: Can I, can I put this in simpler terms?
Will: Sure.
Kristin: If you’re expecting something, if your brain thinks something is in shadow, it sees colors as it would in shadows. Correct. If your brain thinks something is in the light, it sees the colors as if it’s in the light. Yeah. And shadows, colors look different in shadows than they do in the light.
Will: Exactly. But then, It’s not color perception. It’s just that it’s a perception. So your brain has to interpret that color. That’s why really both sides are correct. It’s not like a one or the other because it’s just
Kristin: that there is objectively a color that this dress was
Will: right. But. People’s brains are interpreting it in slightly different ways.
And I think it depends on how light or dark adapted you are at the time of seeing that dress. So, um.
Kristin: What I’m finding interesting though, is I think I saw it white and gold before, and now I’m looking at it again, [00:31:00] and it is blue and black.
Will: So, as you advance in age. Oh no. As you get, no, I’m just kidding.
But misinformation has never been so, so easy. Um. And so yeah, so I think it’s just, and you can kind of make yourself see a certain, a different color, but like if you’re, if you look at it and you know, okay, it’s backlit. It’s like, it’s daytime. I know that it’s backlit. So I’m seeing the dress in shadow.
Then you can kind of trick your brain into like filtering out those darker colors like that silvery. Deep like blue black, because you know, your brain
Kristin: is in shadow. So I need to correct for the fact that it’s in shadow. Yeah,
Will: you correct it. Your brain corrects it. And so you still see it as white and gold.
I guess some people just don’t make that correction or are not thinking about it in that way. And so [00:32:00] they still see it more as a blackened.
Kristin: I’m trying to get myself.
Will: So here’s a way you can make that happen. Sit in a, a, like for like 20 minutes. We’re not gonna do it now. Obviously
Kristin: that’ll be a fun podcast
Will: for 20 minutes.
Like, like just be in a dark room, dark, adapt yourself. Because what that does is. It allows your, your photoreceptors that are more active
Kristin: in
Will: a dark adapted state, which we’ll see more on the black blue spectrum. So sit in a dark room and then look at the dress.
Kristin: And then it’ll seem like it’s light. It’ll,
Will: no, it’ll see more because those are the photoreceptors that are more active at that particular moment.
And so you will see more of the darker
Kristin: colors. I’m confused because I am seeing more of the darker colors
Will: and maybe your brain’s just not seeing
Kristin: blue and black
Will: yeah I think it’s your you’re [00:33:00] just not you’re not making that that adjustment I know I’m trying I’m like mentally
Kristin: trying to get my brain to switch it’s not happening okay what do I what do I need to imagine rather than sitting in a dark room can I do a visualization to get me to switch
Will: I don’t know
Kristin: so if I would need to think about it I don’t think it being very dark,
Will: I think it’s, it’s, uh, you could try that.
You could just close your eyes for a good
Kristin: looking at that dress. And I think to myself, that dress is in a shadow versus if I look at the dress and I think to myself, that dress is well lit,
Will: right?
Can you do it?
Kristin: I’m trying, I don’t think I can,
Will: uh, it’s not on
Kristin: the spot
Will: for human. Like color perception is such a weird thing.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: And it’s, uh,
Kristin: well, I’m really kind of freaked out by this, that back then I saw white and gold. And now I don’t, that’s, that’s bizarre. Brains are weird.
Will: Um, maybe you’ve just, maybe [00:34:00] you’ve killed off some of your color photoreceptors, some of your, some of your high wavelength or low wavelength, I guess it would be.
Kristin: Well, whose fault is that? I’m married to an ophthalmologist. You should be protecting my vision.
Will: Uh, maybe it’s all the blue light. No, I don’t want to say that people would take that seriously, but I think I was actually wondering this would like, if you put on a blue light blocking pair of
Kristin: glasses, yeah, then
Will: it should someone try it
Kristin: because it does.
Will: If it’s blocking out a lot of the blue wavelength of white, then you should see more white and gold. I don’t have any blue light blocking glasses because they’re nonsense for the vast majority of things, except for regulating your circadian rhythm. But, um, anyway, someone could try that and, and let us know.
Yeah, you have that, um,
Kristin: see just as lively a discussion as ever on this
Will: dress, blue, black, white, gold. All right. Let’s take one more [00:35:00] break.
All right. I promise I don’t have any more ophthalmology for you.
Kristin: Okay, good. .
Will: I didn’t even, I didn’t even get into the, uh, visual photo transduction pathway. You can do
Kristin: that on knock, knock eye.
Will: We got ops when don’t have to listen to it. Certain enzymes. It’s fascinating. Don’t wanna hear
Kristin: about it, .
Will: I don’t, I don’t think they will.
Kristin: I think they will. Just because I don’t doesn’t mean that
Will: people,
Kristin: people really like your eyeball stuff. So I’m sure people will be interested. People are enjoying
Will: it.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: You don’t listen to it though, do you? I
Kristin: don’t.
Will: That’s okay.
Kristin: It’s all right.
Will: It’s okay.
Kristin: Sometimes I’ll listen to the first part where you’re just like chit chatting
Will: I’m trying to figure out exactly like what what works I could I could cuz you’re really good at like Brainstorming like figuring out how to like, you know, make things popular among non medical people And so like there’s certain things I’m trying out with this the knock knock [00:36:00] I episodes like sometimes I’ll do make mystery diagnoses like I see a patient sometime in the past couple months and then I like go through my thought process of like how I go about diagnosing that patient people really like that.
Kristin: Yeah,
Will: because it’s like it’s it’s storytelling story. Yeah, it’s it’s like, um, law and order episode. You’re bringing them along in real time with how I think people like because they don’t normally doctors don’t. Explain themselves. I didn’t want to say that, but go into that much detail about their thought process.
Kristin: Right.
Will: Um, and so that’s, that’s one thing. And then another thing is like basically a patient questions.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: Like the, like the, the, the more basic, like things that you don’t really think about. Addressing like in physician and medical community circles because you just don’t think in that way
Kristin: like it’s too.
It’s [00:37:00] things that you all
Will: we take for granted that we just know, right? And so it’s like trying to
Kristin: what is that the curse of knowledge or something? There’s a name for that.
Will: And we’ll go with curse of knowledge.
Kristin: Sure, something to that effect. It doesn’t sound right, but yeah. Look, I’m aging, I can’t remember words anymore.
Will: Uh, so anyway, I just did an episode with like 10 questions like that. Yeah. I don’t know, I’m still trying to figure it out. But then I had an episode recently that was like, did not do as well. So I don’t, I don’t know, I’m trying to.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: I feel like I’m just flying blind, so to speak.
Kristin: Yeah, you’re. Throwing things out there.
See what works. See what people like or people could just tell us that’d be much simpler.
Will: Well, I do. I’m getting lots of great comments on the YouTube channel.
Kristin: Yeah. So
Will: I’ve been, I’ve been reading a lot of those, but yeah, people can actually tell us what they want to see on, on any of these episodes. And I’m like, hi, we’re not going to hi.
Uh, we have a survey.
Kristin: That’s right.
Will: Yeah. We’ve been, been getting really good information so far from people. And so it’ll be in the show notes.
Kristin: Save him some time. Okay.
Will: Yeah, help us out [00:38:00] because we do this for you and and for us
Kristin: nice save there and for us very nice save I saw you guys
Will: all right. I’ve got one more thing before we wrap up here.
Okay. Um,
Kristin: oh, but the survey that it’ll be in the show notes. So if you wanna if you wanna just let us know. Did you? I did. I don’t listen to you.
Will: You don’t listen to me. You don’t listen to knock knock. I you don’t listen to me when I’m talking to you.
Kristin: I Oh,
Will: how the tables have turned.
Kristin: Oh, yeah. How do you like a taste of your own medicine?
Will: Uh, all right. So real quick. Um, so I just had, uh, one of my videos we put up on Instagram. It was the, um, uh, one of my horror themed episodes where the. The, the orthopedic surgeon is trying to teach bones to the students and anybody doesn’t talk about teeth. And yes, I know teeth are not real bones. All right.
Part of the joke. Uh, and then the dentist mafia approaches them. And so [00:39:00] it’s got this kind of horror theme to it, which I’m, I feel like I’m pretty good at, but you don’t like horror movies.
Kristin: Right?
Will: So I was thinking like, you like, you’re a rom com fan.
Kristin: No, I wouldn’t say that.
Will: No?
Kristin: No.
Will: Well, I was just saying like what like what’s a a genre that you Really enjoy that you could help me come up with.
Kristin: Oh,
Will: you like it Well, you like movies where people fall in love.
Kristin: I mean not rom coms are so cheesy
Will: Yeah, so are some of my videos.
Kristin: Well sure, I guess that would be a good fit for, sure, sure. So who, I guess my
Will: question for you is which of my characters should fall in love?
Kristin: Oh, wow.
Will: What do you think?
Kristin: Well,
Will: like I had a two episode arc where there was a, a physical therapist and an orthopedic.
Yeah, yeah.
Kristin: No, I thought it was an occupational. Or occupational,
Will: sorry, a physical therapist and an occupational therapist.
Kristin: Yeah. [00:40:00]
Will: That fell in love over resistance bands.
Kristin: Right. And a really bad wig.
Will: And then I, then I had people also telling me to get speech therapy involved.
Kristin: Oh, okay. But I
Will: wasn’t ready to do some kind of like, menage type situation.
Kristin: Okay. It could be a love triangle. A love triangle.
Will: Well, that would be a little bit better. Yeah. Easier to film.
Kristin: Yeah. I guess I
Will: could still go there. Is there anything else? For people to
Kristin: fall in love? Um, well, that’s an interesting question. I would have to think about it.
Will: Maybe, um, it would be like, they could, someone could fall in love, I was thinking, like, there’s already a burgeoning relationship between Family Medicine and Jonathan.
Kristin: Okay, sure.
Will: Right? Yeah. Like, just kind of
Kristin: That could get weird. Just kind of Ha, ha, ha, ha,
Will: ha. A lot of nodding involved.
Kristin: Yeah, a lot of nodding. Um
Will: And so like, [00:41:00] that’s one way I could just trying to like, like, bring in some positivity to the
Kristin: interesting if and complicated if the psychiatrist fell in love with someone,
Will: I think I’d fall in love with himself,
Kristin: you think.
I think surgery would fall in love with himself.
Will: Well, in a different way for psychiatry, because they just, like, the ultimate challenge is to, is to Did you
Kristin: do that shtick where you’re talking to yourself in the mirror? You know, psychiatry is talking to himself.
Will: I did that once.
Kristin: Did you?
Will: Yeah, I did that when the psychiatrist goes to therapy.
Kristin: Oh, okay. He did therapy on himself. He
Will: had the handheld mirror. That was incredibly difficult to film, actually. All right, we’ll keep brainstorming that one.
Kristin: Yeah,
Will: try to figure out some different, just exploring different relationships.
Kristin: Yeah. You could tell us that on the survey too, if you want, while you’re at it.
Will: Which of my characters do you want to fall in love with each other? All right. That’s our episode. That’s Glock talk for today. Thank you all. Let us know what you thought. Again, uh, you can email [00:42:00] us knock, knock high at human dash content. com. Hang out with us on our social media platforms, uh, our YouTube channel, by the way.
All the episodes are up on our YouTube channel at Glock and Fleckens. Knock, knock. I and knock, knock. Hi.
Kristin: And Glock talk. And they’re all, they’re all the same. It’s all the
Will: same thing, except one of them. Kristen doesn’t watch. Uh, and so, but you can leave comments for us. We always read those YouTube comments and we may read your questions, uh, here on the episode.
Uh, you can also hang out with us and our human content podcast family on Instagram and TikTok at human content bods. Some great pods coming out.
Kristin: That’s right. Already out. Already out. Lots to listen to over there. That’s right. Preston Roche and Margaret Duncan.
Will: Uh, thanks to all the great listeners leaving feedback and reviews.
We love those. If you subscribe and comment on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube and give you a shout out like today, Rudy on Apple plus. Oh, sorry. On Apple Plus, apple Plus, I’m just saying Apple. Is it? It’s Apple Plus Apple
Kristin: tv. [00:43:00] Apple tv, yeah. Apple
Will: T,
Kristin: I don’t know,
Will: we’re old. I think it’s Apple.
Apple Plus is the name of the network. The Apple, I think. I think I’m right there.
Kristin: Disney Plus .
Will: Oh my God. I can’t, I can’t even keep it track. So Rudy on Apple said, uh. A plus pleasure. That’s why I was like, really like said, I originally found Glockenflicken on Tik Tok, then heard about the podcast and started from the beginning.
Wow. So from the beginning,
Kristin: that’s a lot of episodes a while back. Yeah.
Will: The banter between you two is so funny from a relationship standpoint. That’s, that’s good to hear.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: That’s, so why do our kids get so tired of us, of us dancing? Because we’re their parents. I absolutely love the interviews, and believe it or not, the information is wonderful.
Believe it or not. I love it, I love it. Believe it or not. You were in the guest, but a whole new understanding on so many topics. Just got to the first episode of Glock Talk, and no offense Lady G, but I agree with Dr. Um being on time. Most
Kristin: people do. You know, that question is also in the survey. It’s
Will: actually, it is in the survey.
Which, what, who is correct? Keep up one of the best podcasts and I hope someday to see a show. Oh, thank you, Rudy. [00:44:00] That was very thoughtful. Again, full video episodes are up every week on, at Glockenfleckens on YouTube. We also have Patreon. Lots of cool perks, bonus episodes, react to medical shows and movies.
We gotta do the, um, the pit.
Kristin: Ooh, yeah.
Will: I keep seeing clips. From the medical community, keeps showing clips of the pit.
Kristin: Yeah. People
Will: really like that show. It’s a good, it’s a good one. Also happens to have Noah Wiley, favorite of me. Once dressed up as him for Halloween as John Carter. Did you really? John Carter!
Kristin: How old were you are! High school? No! College?
Will: This is like three years ago. What? Okay, yeah, I’ll have to show you the photo. Alright, maybe we’ll show everybody else too. Hang out with other members On Patreon! Uh, yeah, we could probably put it on Patreon. Hang out with other members of the Knock Knock High community, early ad free episode access, interactive Q& A, livestream events, much more, patreon.
com slash glockenflecken. Or go to our website, glockenflecken. com. Speaking of Patreon community perks, new member [00:45:00] shoutout, Sean M! Thank you, Sean, for being a patron. Shoutout to the Jonathans. Patrick, Lucia C, Sharon S, Edward K, Steven G, Marion W, Mr. Granddaddy, Kaitlyn C, Brianna L, Mary H, K L, Keith G, Jeremiah H, Parker, Muhammad L, David H times 2, Kaylee A, Gabe, Gary M, Eric B, Marlene S, Scott M, Kelsey M, Joseph S, Dr.
Hoover, Sean M, Bubbly Salt, and ol Seanity.
Kristin: Seanity!
Will: Patreon roulette, random shoutouts, someone on the emergency medicine tier. Susan F, thank you for being a patron, and thank you all for listening. We’re your hosts, Will and Kristen Flannery. Also known as the Glock and Fleckens, our executive producers are Will Federer, Chris DePlainer, Aaron Cordy, Rob McGolden, and Shanti Brooke.
Our editor in chief, Jason Portis, and our music is by Omer Binzvi.
Kristin: I like how you, you just slur everybody else together, and then, Shanti Brooke.
Will: It rolls off the tongue, it’s a good one, Shanti Brooke. To learn about Knock Knock High’s program disclaimer and ethics policy submission verification and licensing terms and those HIPAA release terms, go to Glockenbloggen.
com [00:46:00] Oh yeah. They are
Kristin: fascinating.
Will: Juicy HIPAA release terms. Or reach out to us, knockknockhigh at human content. com with questions, concerns, or fun medical puns. Knock Knock High is a human content production.
Hey Kristen.
Kristin: What’s up?
Will: You know what character people like the most?
Kristin: Easily Jonathan.
Will: Yeah, a hundred percent. Everybody loves Jonathan. Everybody wants a Jonathan as part of their healthcare team. Yeah,
Kristin: who wouldn’t?
Will: I can’t give you Jonathan.
Kristin: Well, that’s too bad.
Will: I can give you Microsoft Dragon Co Pilot.
Kristin: Okay, well, that might be even better.
Will: This is your AI assistant for clinical workflow. It’s incredible. It helps to streamline documentation, which is one of the hardest parts of being a physician these days. Yeah, it’s, it allows you to automatically convert conversations. Into specialty specific notes.
Kristin: That’s pretty cool.
Will: It really is. You [00:47:00] can customize commands and templates. And, uh, it also helps you to summarize notes and evidence and just makes your job so much easier by taking away some of that, some of that administrative burden.
Kristin: Yeah.
Will: To learn more about how Microsoft Dragon CoPilot can work for you, visit aka.
ms slash knock, knock high again. That’s A K A. Dot ms slash knock, knock. Hi. Thanks for watching the episode. You can find more on that playlist over there. If you prefer to listen, or you just had your eyes dilated, you can binge full episodes, wherever you get your podcast or join the party around Patrion, where you get early access episodes, hang out with us.
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