How To Dismantle Racism in Healthcare | CEO of Advancing Health Equity Dr. Uché Blackstock

KKH Trailer Wide


Dr. Uche Blackstock: [00:00:00] Knock,


Will: hi! Knock, knock, hi!

Hello and welcome to Knock, Knock, Hi! with the Glockenfleckens. I am Dr. Glockenflecken, also known as Will Flannery. I 

Kristin: am Lady Glockenflecken, also known as Kristen Flannery. 

Will: And we are excited for you to be here with us! It’s January, and uh, do you like January as a month? 

Kristin: Uh, no, I gotta be honest, I do not.

You know, the only month worse than January is February, and they come back to that. How can 

Will: you say that? How can you say that when our children’s birthdays are in February? 

Kristin: That’s not the part I’m talking about. It’s just, it’s dark. It’s cold, unless you’re in the Southern Hemisphere, in which case I congratulate 

Will: you.

I think January is worse than February. Well, because February, there’s like a light at the end of the tunnel in [00:01:00] February. It’s like March is coming up, and then you get Spring, but January is like, you get through the holidays, and you’re just, that’s, it’s 

Kristin: it. I’ve never understood why we put So many holidays before January, like they should all 

Will: be in January.

It has 31 days. Whose idea was 

Kristin: that? Right. It should be January where we get all of the like extra lights and the 

Will: parties. Why didn’t we, why don’t all, I guess. I’m, I’m like being very, um, you know, self centered here and assuming that everybody has the same, like, temperature calendar as we do here. Right, you 

Kristin: have to, uh, know that the world is a big place and other people are 

Will: in different seasons.

A southern hemisphere does exist, uh, uh, which is, I have to remind myself, we’ve been there. We have. We went to the Southern Hemisphere 

Kristin: once. But even had we not it would still exist and there are people that live there. 

Will: One thing we haven’t actually like talked about lately is in like several years is our thoughts on like New Year’s.[00:02:00] 

New Year’s Eve. Yeah. When was the last time we actually like It 

Kristin: used to be one of my favorite holidays and now it’s not. We, 

Will: it’s been a while since we’ve like done uh, now we put on the um, Because since we have kids, we do the early, the one that you can just tee up at any time on YouTube, 

Kristin: you can find a countdown any time.


Will: of the two, you can just like find a countdown, and you just like, it’s like 9 o’clock in the evening, like oh, it’s New Year’s, let’s, let’s, it’s 

Kristin: the countdown kids! It’s like the kid version of it’s 5 o’clock somewhere, you know, for drinking, it’s the kid version of well, it’s midnight somewhere. It’s New Year’s 

Will: Eve somewhere, um, and, and then, and then you go to bed early.

That’s right. I think it’s great. 

Kristin: Now it’s just sort of depressing though, because you do really want to just go to bed early. But who, 

Will: like, do people still like the crowds? Like the New Year’s Eve? It’s a good question. 

Kristin: After COVID, I’m not sure. What do you guys think? I’ve never liked the crowds, but I did like, you know, the, the, you go out and you have fun with people that you [00:03:00] like and you, there’s all this like hope and promise of this arbitrary new year.

I’m not really sure why we celebrate 

Will: when we do. And then you go and start exercising 

Kristin: for a few weeks. And then, well, I never did that. Never 

Will: the New Year’s resolutions. 

Kristin: Nope, nope, nope. Okay. How about you? No. Yeah. We’re not What does that say about us? Do we lack commitment, stick to itiveness? 

Will: Oh, of course.

No, I mean, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve stuck to this podcast for over a year. 

Kristin: Look, it’s the 23rd now. So by now everyone has already fallen off their resolution 

Will: wagons. Yeah. Hey, tell us what your resolution was and if you’ve already fallen off, we want to hear that. And what did you win at human dash content. com.

All right. Let’s talk about our guests today. So we have Uche, Dr. Uche Blackstock. Yes, 

Kristin: I love her. I love what she’s doing. We’ve seen her on social media for a while. 

Will: Yeah. Yeah. I first came across her on, uh, she’s on Instagram and, uh, Twitter back when it was Twitter. And, uh, just has a very interesting [00:04:00] perspective as a black physician, black woman physician.

And, um, um, has written a book, has this consulting firm trying to help healthcare organizations, uh, promote equity and inclusiveness in their organizations, which, uh, we, I think we need a lot of. And so, um, it was just fascinating to hear her story. Uh, yeah. Yeah, not 

Kristin: only is she a black female physician, um, she has a twin sister who is also a black female physician and their mother was a black female physician.

Yes. So, um, that’s a really interesting perspective then of this like multi generational experience of being a black female physician. And I think that comes with a lot of insight, uh, that, that we are lucky that she’s sharing with us 

Will: all. Yep. So let’s, uh, let’s get to the interview. Let’s do it. Here is Dr.

Uche Blackstock.

Today’s episode is brought to you by the Nuance Dragon Ambient Experience or DAX for short. To learn more about how DAX copilot can help reduce burnout and restore the joy of practicing medicine. Stick around after [00:05:00] the episode or visit nuance. com slash discover DAX. That’s N U A N C E. com slash discover D A X.

All right. We are here with Dr. Blackstock. Thank you so much for joining us. I see you on, on Twitter. I’ve seen you for years on there and now it’s really great to get to talk to you 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: in person. Same, same. Thank you so much for having me. 

Will: Um, so I, I, I guess I would just want to start, um, I want to, you’ve got a very interesting kind of pathway through the medical field and, you know, um, and so I thought we could just start at the beginning and, and your motivation, what got you into medicine in the first place?

I know you come from a medical family. 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Yes. Yeah. Um, my mother was a physician. Um, she was triple board certified internal medicine. I know, I know. I know, she was definitely, like, not an overachiever. Uh, What were the three [00:06:00] things? Internal medicine, geriatrics, and nephrology. Oh, wow. I know. Smart lady. Yeah, and she was the first person, um, from her family to finish college.

She was born to a single mom here in Brooklyn. She had five siblings. Um, born on public assistance, like really did not have an easy life, but was really, really bright, um, and determined and loved science. So, um, when she went to Brooklyn College, she majored in biology and had a professor there that was like, You know, you’re really smart.

You should apply to medical school. And she got into all of her medical schools. Um, and ended up at Harvard Med School. But anyway, after Harvard, she came back to the same neighborhood that you grew up in, in Brooklyn. Like, she could have gone anywhere else, and she worked for many years in the same community she grew up in.

And so, like, You know, I have a twin sister, Oni, who’s also a physician. Obviously, she was a huge influence on us. [00:07:00] Yeah, 

Kristin: sure. I can’t imagine. OK, so triple board certified and raising twins. Like I have two kids and just a regular job. And I’m exhausted. So I don’t know how she did 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: that. That’s impressive.

Yeah, I mean, I think like, you know, I think she was really determined for us to have like a different upbringing than she did. And so even though, yeah, even though she probably was super exhausted and had all of these commitments, I never felt like She was not there for us. Like she was, she always managed to like be there for us.

So, yeah. I mean, 

Kristin: clearly she’s influenced you very much, both of 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: you. So yeah, yeah. We would visit her at work. We would go to her meetings. Like she would take us everywhere. We’d go to conferences with her. So it kind of felt like the natural thing. Oh yeah. Did she give you, 

Will: did she give you whiteboard presentations about hyponatremia?

Is that, was that 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: part of your upbringing as well? You know what, um, she did definitely explain to us [00:08:00] how the nephron works. And as we know, the kidney is like super complicated. So, that’s 

Will: right. Yeah. So I’m not going to pretend to know anything about it. 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: So I know you are, you’re very highly specialized in the eye, right?


Kristin: That’s a really polite way of saying he doesn’t know very much. I know. No, it’s true. Other than ophthalmology. 

Will: I always say below the nasal bridge. I’m not, I, I, I’m limited. Yeah. But, um, so, so what, how. I guess, do you remember a moment when you were like, Oh, this is, it sounds like it’s basically always been, you’re going to go into medicine.

This is what you wanted to do. You saw your mom do it. You were on the path. Yeah, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: I feel like I can’t even remember like a certain moment, but I think from my mom I just saw like it was like being a physician was just such a great way to um, be in service to your community, um, to do something good. Um, she had a really special connection with all her patients.

They would always be giving her like cookies and blankets, blankets they knitted and gifts and [00:09:00] so it just seemed like a really rewarding job and I was like I want to be just like her. 

Will: But you went, you went, uh, you didn’t go the internal medicine route. I did not because You went the emergency 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: medicine route.

I just couldn’t, you know, those round, the rounds? Yes, 

Will: yes. The rounding. Couldn’t do 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: the rounding. I just didn’t have the attention span for rounding for hours on patients. 

Kristin: Yeah, it takes a special kind of person, I think. Like internal medicine, they have a, they have, they, they want to be doing that. Exactly.

Dr. Uche Blackstock: If you’re not that kind of person, then, mm hmm. And I just, like, when I was a first year medical student, I shadowed one of our anatomy instructors, um, who was just one of our most popular instructors, and he let us shadow him at Mass General. and for a shift. And I remember on this shift, we saw so many different types of patients, like people who came in with just, you know, cold symptoms.

Other people, another person had pneumothorax. And I was like, and had to have a chest tube put in. And I was like, this is, So cool, like, [00:10:00] I need to do this. And I love the idea of just helping, um, all comers, like, you know, you know, everyone goes to the ER, you know, regardless of insurance status, you know, whatever issues they’re having, they come to the ER and it’s your job to take care of them.

Will: And did you know that you wanted to, cause you said your mom, you know, she’s, she stayed in the same, you know, um, uh, neighborhood and community that she, she grew up in. Did you know that that was what, where you were heading to is to practice in the 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: same place you grew up? So I, I, I’m, I’m not as, um, what’s, what’s the word like, like I’m determined, but my mom had like definitely thicker skin than I did.

And so I, when I went back, um, I went back to Brooklyn after medical school at Harvard to train at Kings County, SUNY Downstate, which is where my mom had practiced all these years and for training, it was amazing. Like, I mean, literally. We saw everything, got to do everything. It was really an honor to take care [00:11:00] of those patients, but I have to admit to you, after my four years of residency there, I was burnt out.

Like, you know, I had to push all my patients to CAT scan, like I was transport, I was phlebotomy, um, because it’s an under resourced hospital, so you end up doing a lot, which As a resident, it’s great because you kind of are learning a lot, but I knew that as an attending physician, I’m like, I don’t think that I have the wherewithal to do all of that.

I knew I wanted to stay in academic medicine, though. Right. 

Will: So, so, Kai, you were doing, you were doing blood draws and stuff as well. 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Yeah, I’m still really good. Like, you know, that muscle memory. Listen, I could put an IV in someone’s, like, in a vein that I saw in someone’s finger. Oh, wow. I’m, I’m 

Will: so jealous of like, I wish I had that ability, even though I don’t, I wouldn’t have the opportunity to use it very often as an ophthalmologist, it’s still like.

You know, I never got good at IVs, and so, um It 

Kristin: makes such a difference, too, on the patient side of things. I’m not in medicine, so I am only speaking about it [00:12:00] from my perspective, but like, I’ve gotten so many pokes over the years, and the ones that can do it without you even hardly noticing, Oh, you’re just like so grateful to those.

People, even just things like vaccines, right? Like some people you just don’t even notice. Those people, it’s like, how do I make an appointment with you every 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: time? Yeah. It makes a big difference. It really, really does. And we had a lot of patients who were on dialysis, so they, it was really, really hard to get access on them because they had been hospitalized so many times.

And I literally could like, I feel like take a needle and just go, whoop. And, and so that was my greatest pride in residency that I couldn’t find. You know, abate on anybody. 

Will: What a flex, too. It’s like, you know, no one else. Let’s get Dr. Blackstock in here. 

Kristin: I hope they gave you 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: a really cool nickname for that.

Actually, all the residents got really good at it. We all were really good at it. Just because we were so understaffed. Now, you 

Will: didn’t also have to perform your own gram stains, did you? [00:13:00] 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: I didn’t, but I had to mix my own like gastrographin for CAT scans. Like if patients were getting a CAT scan, they would like track down the gastrographin, dilute it in water.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. 

Will: What a good experience though, you know, like to, to know what it’s like to be in that kind of resource, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: you know, resource environment. Right. And I mean like, if I could. I probably would have gotten their medication, but I didn’t have access to the Pyxis. You know, we have access to the Pyxis, so, um, but yeah, I would have done all that too.

I used to have patients or a patient that wasn’t mine next to one of my patients that would say, Hey doc, can, can you be my doc too? Because I see you like Running around everywhere doing everything for your patients. Yeah, 

Will: yeah, and then and so you mentioned you said you were you knew you wanted to do academics.

What was it? What was it that was like Oh academics because I’m the I was the opposite I was like early on I was like no academics for me. That’s not my 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: bag. Yeah So my mom was in academics But then also I always I just love the idea of being in a really what I thought [00:14:00] was intellectually stimulating environment We’re doing a little bit of teaching, a little bit of clinical work, a little bit of research.

I felt like that would keep me kind of, you know, interested and engaged. Um, so I actually did an emergency ultrasound fellowship after residency, um, because in emergency medicine, we actually use the ultrasound. Yes, we actually, actually, I can diagnose a retinal detachment. And a vitreous hemorrhage. Oh, 

Will: yeah.

Oh, yeah. You guys are good at it. It’s my understanding that ultrasound fellowships are required now of all residents. I’m joking. 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: No, no, no. In emergency medicine, ultrasound rotation is required of all emergency medicine residents. Yeah, it’s 

Will: what you can, but it really is impressive. I’ll say, even as an ophthalmologist, I see it.

You’re really pretty good at diagnosing lots of things. 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Yeah, I mean. You know, trauma patients, you know, ballstones, blood clots. Um, we were able to do echoes on our own patients. So that’s part of our [00:15:00] workup. And so I did an emergency ultrasound fellowship, which is like a year long. And then I went to, went into academics as faculty.


Will: gotcha. And what, what was your goal to be? Cause you, you had an interest in research, obviously. Yeah. What was it that, that you were? wanting to pursue in that area? Yeah, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: actually, so what I did when I went, you know, into my faculty position, I actually was very interested in medical education and using ultrasound to teach medical students about anatomy, physiology, and pathophysiology.

So, you know, this idea of being able to visualize all of these internal structures that they’re learning about either on cadavers or the classroom, but actually to be able to see the heart beating and to see diastole and to see systole and um, to see what ascites, you know, fluid in the belly looks like, I think I thought would be a great way to complement like the traditional curriculum.

So I developed a four year curriculum. at the med school I was at, um, in ultrasound. Yeah. 

Will: Oh, [00:16:00] that’s cool. Um, all the, all the emergency medicine physicians that are listening are pumping their fists. Yes. Yes. Way to go. That’s awesome. 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And, and, and just to see the look in the medical students eyes of like that light bulb going off and be like, oh, like now I get it.


Kristin: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that makes a big difference to be able to see things. I don’t know. I’ve been, you know, following along with your beef with ultrasound and, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: and we’ve had, it’s 

Will: like a, it’s like a play be, it’s like a, you know, a tongue in cheek, some of it, sort of, right. There’s some things, and we’ve, we’ve, we’ve talked about this before, Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Some uses of ultrasound on the eye, like traumatic eye injuries. That is just not, like, it’s 

Kristin: not necessary. I just, every time though that we talk to somebody who’s using ultrasound and talking about ultrasound, I’m like, what’s your problem, dude? You’re just wrong on 

Will: this issue. No, I am on the record.

I am, I am pro ultrasound, uh, for, because you, you can, you see so much with, and honestly, if I had to try to [00:17:00] diagnose internal organ things, I would absolutely use ultrasound. I’d go right for it. Absolutely. So I’m, I’m on board, but it’s just some of the eye things that are, that are out there in the ultra, in the emergency world, particularly with regard to eye, traumatic eye injuries.

Like open globes, like people talk about diagnosing it open, like, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: that’s, like to put gel and put a probe on, yeah, on an eye that’s open, yes, not a great idea, that makes sense, no, no, I, I agree with that, that makes sense to me, 

Will: but what you’re talking about with, especially in areas that, that don’t have I’ve, I’ve, I’ve come back a little bit on this because I have gotten pushed back, uh, on my ultrasound thoughts and I, I, I listen, I listen to people, other points of view.

And so, um, and, and like, especially rural areas or areas that maybe don’t have like ophthalmologists, like ready to come in at a moment’s notice. to be able to diagnose a retinal detachment or a vitreous hemorrhage or something like that is, I think, very, very useful skill. [00:18:00] So, I 

Kristin: mean, I just, I kind of would like to have an ultrasound just to play 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: with.

Listen, when I, okay, so, so I actually, you know, they have like, um, I forgot the name of the company, but they have like, You know, handheld ones. When I was, when I was pregnant with my second child, I had one at home and every, I mean, at like, at least, I know, I know. I’d be like, wait, let me see how this little guy is doing.

Okay, great. Yeah. I mean, it just, I was just, I was a bundle of nerves during my pregnancy. You’re still in there, little guy. Yeah, you’re still, you’re still in there. You’re still moving around. Your heart’s still beating. Okay, great. 

Will: Just checking. So, at some point, though, because, so it sounds like you’re really, you know, at some point enjoying this, uh, the academic life, and then things changed, it sounds like, right?


Dr. Uche Blackstock: you know, I, I think also, like, this idea that I didn’t think of doing anything else other than academics, you know, sometimes you’re on that, You’re just on this path, and I feel like definitely in medicine that happens a lot. You’re kind of like, I’m chugging along. I think I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing.

And then you kind of never really ask [00:19:00] yourself, well, like, am I, am I happy? Like, do I feel fulfilled? Um, so I was doing a lot of medical education work and You know, yeah, sometimes I felt like a little bit under, underappreciated, undervalued, and then I was handpicked for this, uh, diversity, equity, and inclusion role at the med school I was at.

I was super excited about it, but it ended up kind of just being like a figurehead role, like they didn’t really expect me to do anything, and that was like a bit. That was a, like, a huge letdown for me, um, because I, because I, you know, because while I was interested in medical education, really my heart, my heart is really in diversity, equity, inclusion, and thinking about how we can make academic medicine, healthcare overall, you know, address some of the racial health inequities that we see, um, in this country.

And so I really wasn’t able to do that and An authentic way in the academic setting I was in, and then I just started thinking more broadly. I said, am I going to be able to do this anywhere? So I, so I founded my own company. Like, That’s amazing. I know, like I still pinch myself. [00:20:00] Um, it’ll be five years old in March.

It’s called Advancing Health Equity. It’s a consulting firm. That’s, that’s amazing. That’s great. I know. And we work with health care organizations, academic medical centers around health equity and DEI. And I’m doing basically everything that I’ve always wanted to do. 

Will: That must have been a really hard decision to leave academia.

In fact, I just saw something. It might have been you that retweeted it, actually, that I saw. Um, about like one in three, either physicians or people in academia are thinking about leaving academia within the next couple of years, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: you know? Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, I have to say, I’m not, I wasn’t surprised by that stat because I’ve had people that I’ve known that left before me and left after me.

Um, but for me it was, it was like a big decision, but that kind of, it took me like a year or two to get there. Um, because I actually hadn’t thought about it. I’m like, what am I going to do? And even when I started my consulting firm, I had just started [00:21:00] it as something to do part time, not something to do full time.

Um, I could not have ever imagined that that would be the case as it is now, but I also think, you know, in academic medicine, it’s, you feel like you have to always prove yourself, like you have to be, there’s certain criteria for what being productive looks like, you know, it’s publishing. I always felt like clinical work was not very valued and also mentoring, um, and teaching was not as valued as much, even though that’s, I feel like I really enjoyed those two the most.

Um, so I kind of felt like I was not in alignment. Like, I feel like I was in an environment where I could really thrive. And so when I left academic medicine in December, 2019, I was going to work part time in urgent care. And then the other time on my consulting firm, and then, as you know, in March 2020, everything went sideways.

And for a few months, I was like, wait a minute, because urgent care, we actually got really busy. [00:22:00] So many people were, you know, it was in New York City, so many patients were coming to urgent care instead of the ER. So we saw a lot of really sick patients and they asked me to pick up more shifts. And I was like, oh, wait a minute.

Um, but then, you know, um, you know, George Floyd and Breonna Taylor cases happened, and I actually started getting so many requests for consulting for my company because a lot of healthcare organizations wanted to do the work. Since then I have been busy and then I also got into, um, being a medical contributor for MSNBC because I was just like writing op eds about what I was seeing.

So it was just amazing because I had this opportunity to, I remember my agent said, Uche, they actually want to hear your perspective. And I was like, what? Because I was so used to, I was so used to being in academic medicine where I kind of like become an automaton and just kind of like, you know. Yeah, you have the 

Kristin: like scripted things [00:23:00] that you say all the time and they don’t really want you to make any 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: waves.

Right, exactly. And so my agent’s like, you can say more. You can say what you actually think. And I was like, oh my god, really? And so Yeah, and so the rest is history. It’s been amazing. I love the work that I do with my consulting firm. I do miss the students, um working with the students in academic medicine and the and the trainees.

They’re so just They give me so much hope and, you know, seeing their, their evolution and their growth is such a privilege. I can relate 

Kristin: to so much of your story. I wasn’t in, um, academic medicine, but I was in academics. I was in a PhD program and it’s just so, so similar of like what I really loved about it was the, the learning and the teaching and the mentoring and the students and all of that.

And I could have done that forever, but I really didn’t. I actually like the research part of it very much and then, it’s very similar to you, kind of, you know, once you see behind the curtain of something, became very disillusioned. With kind of, [00:24:00] you know, how it all works, the nuts and bolts on the back end that you don’t necessarily see on the brochures, right?

And so, um, so I ended up leaving as well. And I think that a lot of people, at least this was true, um, when I left and, and sounds like perhaps maybe still true when you left. Um, a lot of people feel like you can’t leave because you’ve, you’ve put so, you have so much sunk cost into it, right? Life’s a mess.

There’s no other thing you can do, so there’s no way out. We’re never taught about alternative options for what we’ve done to that point in our training and careers, and so it just feels like you are stuck. Um, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: And it’s so crazy that you would feel stuck because you’ve accomplished so much. Exactly. 

Kristin: It’s this very twisted backwards way of thinking, but it is so ingrained in us, uh, that I think it really pulls people in, into that way of thinking.

It can lead to some really bad places [00:25:00] because, you know, it becomes so much part of your identity, right? That I am an academic. And so that’s hard to separate from your own sense of identity. It because there’s all this like shame and guilt. If you want to leave because of all of the. Resources and time and energy that people have invested in you doing this job, right?

And there’s, there’s very much a culture of like, we’re raising you up this way. You know, it’s, it’s almost like a dysfunctional family sort of thing, right? 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Like, absolutely. Yeah. I resonate with, with, um, so much of what you say resonates. Um, with me, um, I actually had like, so this is very personal, but I had actually gone up for a promotion from assistant to associate professor and my department had unanimously voted the promotion through and they were like, no, Usha, you’ve done so much for the school.

And when I first went up to the school’s committee for promotion, I actually was denied, um, my promotion. And I remember my chair calling me and just being like, Uche, I’m sorry, I [00:26:00] don’t know what happened. And I remember someone telling me, someone who was on the committee who did vote for me said, I would understand if she left, because this is feel, this is such a slap in the face.

Yeah. Whoa. And but, but it just made me realize that like, even though you, you, you may expend a lot of energy and do a lot of work that you think is meaningful, like a lot of these, the people in institutional leadership, they, they might not necessarily think that work is valuable. Right. Right. And so. What happened was a few months later, I had a lot of really wonderful supporters and I went back up for promotion and it went through, but I think I never really got, I never got over that experience.

It kind of felt like, it felt like a slap in the face after just putting hours and hours of work, um, into, into what I was doing. But also the other thing is one of my friends, I had a conversation with her. about what am I, what am I going to do if I leave? Because I feel like I need an affiliation, like an academic affiliation.

Like if I don’t have an academic affiliation, who am I? Right. But like you were saying, like, [00:27:00] I was just so wrapped up. That was part of my identity. I was an academic. Um, so I had to like do that unlearning and relearning of like, Uche, like, you are, Awesome and amazing on your own. Like, you do not need an affiliation to be, to feel valued or appreciated.

You are the 

Kristin: affiliation. You stand on your own. I mean, for real, you are, I mean, you are a name unto yourself. You know, you do not need an institution. But, it is scary to take that 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: step. Yeah. Oh yeah, I was so scared. I was like, I had bills to pay, but listen, I mean, and one thing I also didn’t recognize is that when you get out of your comfort zone sometimes, like there literally is abundance out there because you actually fall into alignment.

You’re doing things that you love and more opportunities come. Exactly. 

Will: And when I, I know when I speak at a conferences now, when people want my affiliation, I just write TikTok. So you can, you really can have any kind of affiliation. It [00:28:00] doesn’t, if your word speaks for itself. Yeah, 

Kristin: here I am just working out of our house.

For our tiny little LLC, I put that on my, when I publish in journals. Like it really, I mean, we’re joking and it’s funny, but also it is true. There is so much out there that you can do with the skill. There’s so many transferable skills that you get in an academic career and training. Uh, and so I think, I hope people look to you as inspiration for what to do if they feel like they’re stuck.

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Yeah. And I also hope, you know, I say I have this guilt about leaving my students and trainees, but I also realized that I’m also. Um, like the path I’ve taken is an opportunity for them to see that there are other different paths that you can take, um, in medicine, that there’s not one way to do things. 

Will: I want to talk a little bit more about your consulting, because I find this very interesting, uh, starting that kind of career.

Let’s take a quick break and we’ll come right back.

Hey Kristen, doesn’t it seem like AI can do anything? It seems that way, it’s everywhere. It is, but have you heard of Precision? No, tell me. This is the first [00:29:00] ever electronic health record integrated infectious disease AI platform. That sounds fancy, but what does it mean? Yeah, it’s really exciting. So for any specific patient, it takes all the patient’s clinical data and automatically highlights better antibiotic coverage.

In real time. Oh, nice. Yeah. It empowers clinicians to save more lives while also working more efficiently and quickly. To see a demo, go to That’s precision spelled with an X instead of an E, so P-R-X-C-I-S-I-O

Okay. We are back with Dr. Blackstock. So Uche, uh, I, I really want to know about this, your consulting firm. What exactly does that mean? What do you, who’s reaching out to you and how are you helping them? 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Yeah. So essentially we get. Client requests from a range of healthcare associated organizations, whether they be academic institutions, governmental agencies like [00:30:00] departments of health, um, non profits like, um, like Planned Parenthood is one of our, our clients.

Um, but they basically come to us because they want to really work on like their workplace culture, how to make it more diverse, more equitable so that the work they do can really, um, be in service to the communities and the patients that they take care of. So we essentially do, we go in, we do surveys, we do interviews with leadership, we do focus groups with staff.

Um, we also do leadership coaching around equity and how to be an inclusive leader. Um, and then a lot of times they ask us to stay on longer. Um, so we do capacity building, just help them to function better as. Um, an organization focused on equity, but they’re all health related and, you know, there is, what do you call it?

Um, what kind of bias, like, like, selection bias in that the people who come to, well, people come to us, like, The organizations, they are interested in doing the work and they’re very much ready to do the work. So it’s always, [00:31:00] it’s always like very much, um, a pleasure. So usually we have engagements from three months to actually a few years.

Like I’m working with, um, the New York state department of health, um, on a health equity wide assessment. We’re doing trainings with their staff, we’re doing focus groups, and then we’ll compile like a strategy and plan for them over three to five years for how. to think and focus on health equity. I, I assume 

Will: there are probably the same type of problems and things to work on that come up every single time, right?

So do you have a couple like concrete, you know, examples of, of things that you’ve really focused 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: on? Well, the interesting thing is like when we do the focus groups with staff, we’re like, okay, did you share this with your leadership? And a lot of times. They feel, you know, a little intimidated and scared to do so.

So I think like, it’s great to have an outside external consulting firm come in and talk to the leadership and be like, you know, this is what we found. These are the patterns that we found in the organization. [00:32:00] Um, we think it’s really important for you to get constant feedback from your staff about how things are going.

Um, You know, look at the patterns of hiring, look at patterns of who’s leaving your organization. Um, so we do a lot of like one on ones with leadership about how to really listen to your staff. And like a lot of our recommendations are not rocket science. They actually are very, very common sense, but if they had listened to their staff and employees, they probably would have been able to like, You know, avoid a lot of these, um, issues.

Um, and then the other thing is we do a lot of trainings with people just around, um, the history of health inequities and racism in healthcare. And it’s really wonderful because it’s very eye opening for people when we give them a safe space, just to talk about like what they’re learning, how it impacts their work and, you know, how they’re going to move forward.

Um, And we just, we work with organizations around their visions, their missions, um, even hiring and [00:33:00] recruiting. So whatever their needs are, we work with them in that respect. Do 

Kristin: you find that they, I mean, I can see how, depending on how it goes, this could be very discouraging or encouraging work, right?

Like you go in and you see like, look, I know exactly what you need to do. And then you hand it back to them and then it’s on them, whether they do it or not. So do you find it? Like, are they doing it? 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Yeah, I would say for the most part, it is very encouraging. Okay, good. You know, I think, I think, you know, every now and then sometimes we’ll get a client that’s like, you know what, I think we’re gonna, um, stop doing work now because like, everyone’s getting really overwhelmed.

Because that’s the thing, people have their regular work to do, and so how do you integrate it in a way that prioritizes it but is not stretching them thin? But I would say overall, like, You know, when we check back in with organizations to see how things are going, they are so grateful. They’re, they’re very, very grateful.

And so that’s such a wonderful feeling. Yeah, 

Kristin: it’s, it’s such a, I get on too many [00:34:00] soapboxes, but one of mine, we used to live in Iowa and I used to work at the University of Iowa and I’m not saying them in particular, but just because of that history, um, you know, I’ve kind of kept up with what’s going on in Iowa.

And they’ve actually recently like. outlawed DEI initiatives and things like that. And it’s just so, first of all, that’s incredibly stupid and mean and irresponsible. Yeah. But also. Like it was always this I this attitude of like that This is something extra that we’re doing and what you just said about sometimes they’re like everybody has too much work You know, it reminds me of that mindset and it’s like no, it shouldn’t be something extra.

It should be something that’s just part of Everything that you’re doing right because 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: when it’s part of actually every it helps everyone right it helps it helps the whole organization And I think that’s what people notice once we work with them. Like, oh, this is just, these are just good practices, organizational practices to have in general.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. 

Will: And so, and you’ve, you’ve, [00:35:00] um, you know, taken all this experience now and I, I, and I assume, you know, included all of this experience into, Put all this into writing this book that’s coming out. I think actually the day that this episode comes out 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: is the 23rd, January 23rd. Oh my gosh. So this 

Will: is awesome.

And so, uh, I would love to hear just about the origin of, of this, of your memoir and yeah, is this something you’ve been thinking about writing for a while? So 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: can I tell you, this is, this is the other thing I love to share with your audience is that you never know, like, who’s listening to you, like, we have these platforms and we want to use them for good.

So actually, my book agent in the summer of 2020 heard me on a radio show, I was talking about COVID, and she literally like cold emailed me and said, Hey, have you ever thought about writing a book? I think that you have a story to tell. I looked you up, I follow you on Twitter. And, and I checked her out.

I’m like, okay, she’s legit. And we, we had a conversation and she’s like, I think you should write a book about, you know, being a second generation [00:36:00] Black woman physician and using your mother and your own personal and professional experiences to talk about the history of racism in medicine and even like what’s happening now in COVID.

And yeah, so we, we, we wrote, we, we wrote a proposal together. I met with nine publishers and went up for auction. I know, I know, I know. These are things I could have never imagined, right? But it wouldn’t have happened if I hadn’t like veered off that path that I thought I was going to take. But yes, it took me a year and a half to write the book.

A lot of like soul searching. I interviewed my dad, my sister, um, even like some positions that are experts in like the health equity space. And Really what it is, it’s a combination of things. It’s a love letter to my mother, because she actually passed away when we were 19 years old of acute myelogenous leukemia.

Um, but she obviously has had a tremendous influence on us. Um, she wrote an essay about women in medical education while she [00:37:00] was still alive. So I was able to use some of her writing, um, in, in the book and draw connections to now. There’s a lot of history and social commentary in it. And then there’s a call to action, um, for, for people in healthcare, for every segment of the population, policy makers about how we can address health equity.

But I really wrote it for a broad audience to help people connect the dots for how we got to this place today where, you know, Black birthing people are three to four times more likely to die of pregnancy related complications. It’s higher than that of like low income countries. So I wanted just to make sure that a broad audience, not just people in medicine or healthcare, but people in the public who care about equity and justice, like understood how we got here and what they can do to make a difference.

Will: I’m sure there are a lot of people out there that hear, you know, uh, uh, racism in medicine and are kind of shocked by that, right? Because the, the natural assumption is that, uh, you know, medicine, it’s [00:38:00] just there to help and, and, and we’re, you know, that’s the goal and, and don’t, don’t think about that there’s this, this background, um, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: for 

Kristin: Do you think that most people are shocked by that or is it most white people are shocked by 

Will: that?

Well, yeah, I mean, I’m sure mostly white people. Yeah, I mean genuine 

Kristin: question cuz like I’ll use being a woman as an example Right, like there are things about our culture that I didn’t realize until I was You know in my 30s that were happening around me to me Even though they were happening to me and I was kind of in this System where you just drink the water, right?

It all seems normal. So, so it’s a genuine question. I mean, I would, I would imagine that people who experience it would be more 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: aware of it. But yes, I mean, I would say that definitely there’s a personal experience that resonates with a lot of probably will resonate with a lot of black readers. But also there’s the history, right?

And so commentary that people aren’t aware of like even one of my agents who’s a black man, my talent [00:39:00] agent. He was like, oh my goodness, when he read the book, he was like, there was all this I did not know. You know, so, so that’s why I feel like there’s something in the book for everybody, like people are going to read and be like, Oh, oh, oh, you know, and I try to make it like an easy read.

I also try to make it hopeful as well. And just that, you know, we all have a part in making a difference. Yeah. 

Will: Yeah. And so, uh, tell us a little bit about that call to action, you know, and, and what it is that, that people can do in their day to day 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: life. Yeah, I think definitely, like on an individual level, you know, I would say even health professionals sort of thinking about, you know, what are some of the biases that we hold that we don’t even realize we hold, like kind of educating yourselves, like doing a lot of reading, not just doing trainings, but like being very reflective and thinking about how that impacts how we care for our patients.

Because we do have data that shows that like Black patients are more likely to be spoken over. When they’re talking to their doctor, um, they’re [00:40:00] less likely to be listened to, and that leads to delayed diagnoses, or misdiagnoses, and sometimes harm and death, right? So there’s that individual level work that we have to do that I think we could do at home, we could do with our family and friends, but then there’s the institutional work where we need to keep.

you know, have processes, sometimes standard processes in place to make sure that all of our patients are receiving equitable care. So for example, there was an emergency department I was working for, I won’t say which one, but they noted that their Black patients were waiting 80 minutes longer to get admitted to the hospital from the ER than other patients.

And so we talked about what are some things that we can put, what are reminders we can put in the EMR with a dashboard only for that health professional that they can see how that compares to other patients they’re caring for. So I do think there’s that inner work that we can do, but then there is the organizational practices.

And then I think it’s just educating yourself on when you see your patient. I think in medical school, we [00:41:00] only think about the patient. physician relationship. We don’t realize when we’re taking care of our patients, everything is in the room with us. What’s happening in their community, right? What kind of job they have, right?

Um, you know, are they housing insecure, right? Like all of that we know impacts health. So to have a broader view of our patients than just like, the individual decisions they’re making or what we’re going to prescribe for them or what surgery we’re going to do. We want to really understand how they’re living.

Kristin: I love that. That speaks to some of what we talk about, you know, just remembering that the human in front of you, right? And that they are connected to other humans and to a whole environment. And they’re more than just whatever the pathology is that brought them in. And you have to consider all of it. I love that.

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Exactly. Exactly. 

Will: And we also, um, need. You know, on an organizational level, people to buy in, like leadership to buy into this, which it seems, seems like a much, a much harder, uh, uh, you know, thing to overcome [00:42:00] because there’s a, there’s a lot of, especially lately, it seems there’s been a lot of, um, people downplaying the role that diversity can, can have in medicine and academia.

Dr. Uche Blackstock: I know. So we really need to hold our leaders accountable and to tell them, like, we expect you to uphold these certain values. And part of the values are making sure that everyone is getting the care that they need or that we have workplaces where everyone can thrive and not just survive in them. So yes, definitely we need buy in, but from leadership, because we know that, that, that any changes that happen have to happen from the top down.

Kristin: Right. It just seems like something that you shouldn’t have to argue, right? That everyone should get health care. 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Good healthcare. I know. I know. It’s so simple. I know. But it’s so frustrating. Yeah. 

Will: Yeah. Well, let’s, um, let’s take another break and then we’ll come back with Dr. Blackstock.

Hey, Kristen. Yeah. Our anniversary’s coming up. Yes, that’s right. You know what I got you? What? A bouquet! 

Kristin: [00:43:00] Oh, you shouldn’t 

Will: have. They’re Demodex mites. That’s why you shouldn’t have. Look how cute those faces are, and the little legs. It’s kind of cute, You know what these things do? What? They cause you to have like, itchy, red, irritated eyelids.

That’s not cute. Well, it’s a disease. It’s actually a pretty common disease called Demodex 

Kristin: Blepharitis. How do you know if you have it? What does it 

Will: look like? Well, you end up with this crusty, flaky buildup on your eyelashes. It’s pretty easy to see if you just look at them under a microscope. Pretty gross, though.

Yeah, yeah. So, well, you don’t get grossed out. Okay. You gotta get 

Kristin: checked out. Okay, that’s a fair point. Yeah. 

Will: You gotta go in. And we’ll look at your eyelids. You just go to EyelidCheck. com to get more information, all right? That’s E Y E L I D Check. com to get more information about demodex blepharitis.

These cute little guys. Yeah. That’s the most 

Kristin: romantic anniversary gift you’ve ever given me. You’re welcome. 

Will: All right.[00:44:00] 

We are here with Dr. Blackstock and, uh, before we, before we wrap up, uh, Uche, what we sometimes will do is just read. We get lots of stories because we’re kind of a storytelling type of pro Yes. Podcast. You’d think a podcast I’d be able to speak. Anyway. Uh, so, uh, we do have a story today from a listener named Barbara.

All right, so we’re gonna, we’re gonna read this together. I, I do cold readings on this, so just warning, I have not read this at all. I have no idea what’s gonna happen here. We’re just gonna take it as it comes. All right, Barbara says, I was recently hospitalized and every morning the attending rounded with interns and medical students.

After everyone examined me, the attending would ask the students questions. The other day, he asked questions about lymph nodes and turned to me and said, sorry, shop talk. And I replied, that’s fine. I’m just waiting for you to ask them about the Krebs cycle. They were all, they were bursts of laughter and the attending asked me how I knew about the Krebs cycle.

Why, Dr. Glockenfleck, and I replied, the attending [00:45:00] The attending accused me of giving the students PTSD. Oh my goodness. Oh man. Uh, how much do you remember about the Krebs cycle, Uche? 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: I remember absolutely nothing, and I’m not ashamed to say, it’s just that I never, I mean, honestly, I never used it in the emergency department.


Kristin: does use it? 

Will: Does it get used? Clinical geneticists, probably. I 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: don’t know. Okay, all right, there you go. 

Kristin: It just seems bizarre that you all have to learn it, and I’ve not heard one person say they ever use it. 

Will: But actually, that leads to another question, just the practice of medicine. Are do you, do you, how much do you miss it?

How much do you pay for the days of like, uh, you know, long night shifts? None, none 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: at all. No, no. And that’s just because, no, no, no. I, when I, when I, um, was practicing, I loved, I enjoyed it. And I, I, I do miss the patient, the connections with patients, even though in the ER, we have these very brief, intense interactions [00:46:00] with our patients.

Like I really loved it and I loved being there for them, but I feel like now some of the work that I’m doing has a different kind of impact and that’s just what right now, like the mindset that I’m in. 

Will: Yeah. I think it’s, it’s just great to. To leave clinical medicine, but still like, find a way to have even bigger impact on patient 

Kristin: care.

Well, and look at that, I mean, your department didn’t really want you to be doing the work that they hired you to do, and you wouldn’t, but if you had been able to do it, you would have done it at that one place, and now look, your impact is so much broader than if you had just You know, stayed on the, what was the plan, 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: so.

Yes, I made, I made one of the best decisions ever. Yeah. Well, 

Kristin: I love what you’re 

Will: doing. Yes, absolutely. So the book is called Legacy, A Black Physician Reckons With Racism in Medicine. And so, um, and it’s out. today. It’s out now. So definitely go check it out. Uh, it’s just a wonderful story and thank you for writing it and for putting yourself out there because I know that’s, that’s [00:47:00] tough to, you know, talk about some of the things you’ve been through.

And I can tell you, you know, after, you know, we talk about my cardiac arrest and cancer stuff and I get so many messages from people like, like, thanks for putting that out there. I’m sure you probably. Get the same 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: thing. Same. Same. They feel seen. They feel affirmed. And that’s like the best feeling ever.

Will: And that, that alone is, is, can be a huge part of advocacy, right? Just, just putting that out there and, and letting people know that they, that there are other people like you, you know, so. Yes, exactly. Um, anything else? 

Kristin: Uh. Where can people find you if they want to learn 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: more? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, they can find me on Twitter at Uche, at U C H E underscore Blackstock, or on Instagram at UcheBlackstockMD.

And I just want to thank you both. I had, this was so much fun. It was. so much for an engaging and fun conversation. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for 

Kristin: coming on. We are honored to have 

Will: you. Absolutely. It was great. It was great to finally see you in person. Yeah. You know, I’ve seen, and uh, I’ve seen your TV spots.

And your contribution to social [00:48:00] media, you’ve got everything going on. I know, 

Kristin: I feel like we know you because we’ve been following you for so long. Same. 

Dr. Uche Blackstock: Same. 

Will: Same. Alright, well, thanks for joining us. Have a great day.

What a fascinating conversation. It 

Kristin: really, really is. And it’s important work she’s doing. 

Will: Yeah, does it make you want to write a book? 

Kristin: I do want to write a book, but I’m also terrified to write a book. And I don’t know how any of it works. And I’m kind of like, like when she was saying her agent said, I think you have a story to tell.

I feel like I have a story to tell. But I don’t know how to go about doing it. So, no, I just don’t. 

Will: I definitely, I want to get her book as soon as it comes out. Yes, I do too. So, it’ll be a good reminder once this episode comes out. Oh, the book’s out. Yep. Let’s go get it. Time to buy it. So, everybody really should check it out.

Um, and uh, just a fascinating story. I love hearing stories. Origin stories. 

Kristin: We were so fascinated by her that we just skipped right over the game because because we know we spent the time on the stories So 

Will: we had [00:49:00] an emergency medicine related emergency surgery type game to play But you know chances are we’ll have somebody else who can talk about emergencies 

Kristin: Yeah, but we felt like she, what she had to say was more important than our jump game that we had.


Will: um, and let us know what you guys, uh, think of the episode and do you have any suggestions for, uh, guests? Uh, we’d loved, we love hearing, you know, people who just have, you know, that do things that are, you know, outside the box. And it was really cool hearing her pivot about her pivot out of academic medicine.

Kristin: Um, I think nowadays that’s going to. Uh, be interesting to a lot of people, yeah. 

Will: Everyone’s talking, everyone’s talking about side gigs, and like, trying to, you know, but to like, take that leap where, I’m not even, like, and I, you know, admittedly have a side gig. But, but I’m not even, like, to quit medicine.

That sounds, that seems so scary, to like, to, to just totally change gears, [00:50:00] and, and, I don’t know. It’s more, you know. Yeah, credit to Dr. Blackstock. 

Kristin: I did it in grad school and it was the most terrifying thing ever because you just don’t know what, it’s just a black void that you’re launching out into. So, uh, yeah, credit to her for, for doing what she’s doing instead.

Still, still 

Will: making a difference, you know? A 

Kristin: bigger one than she 

Will: could have otherwise. Uh, all right, so, uh, there’s lots of ways you can reach out to us, did you know that? You can email us, knockknockhi at human content. com, you can send all your, uh, suggestions and things, uh, that you want. Uh, you can also visit us on all our social media platforms, you can hang out with us in the Human Content Podcast family on Instagram and TikTok at humancontentpods.

Thanks to all the wonderful listeners, all of you guys, you’re all, all of you, all of you are leaving feedback. Wonderful feedback I hear, that’s great and reviews. They’re all great. They’re all awesome. If you subscribe and comment on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube, we can give you a shout out.

Like at wsu1038 on YouTube said, this is the first Knock [00:51:00] Knock High episode. Great guests. This is my first Knock Knock High episode. I should say, great guests. I follow them too. You and Mrs. G seem to be a good match. Well, good. Cause we’re working together and we’re married and we’re. Stuck. And we’re stuck 

Kristin: with each other.

Stuck together in this room. Not literally stuck together. We’re not conjoined husband and wife, but uh Metaphorically. But you 

Will: can tell people have never seen her legs. 

Kristin: Figuratively. Well, that’s true. You never know. It’s a three 

Will: legged race down here. She, uh, uh, WSue1038 said that about the, um, Dr. Paul Zalzal and Dr.

Brad Weaning episode. Ah, the Talking with Docs 

Kristin: guy. Talking with Docs, the orthos. They 

Will: were fun. The orthobros. Uh, full episodes of this podcast are up on my YouTube channel every week at DGlockenflecken, in case you want to know what we look like. And, uh, we also have a Patreon. Lots of cool perks, bonus episodes, where we react to medical shows and movies.

You can hang out with us and the other members of our little growing community. Our little township. Our, uh, our, our, our village, which [00:52:00] should, should I say the, uh, are we at a city level? Are we gonna 

Kristin: have to buy, you know, those social media posts that you see sometimes? It’s like, you know, there’s an entire village in Spain that’s for sale for one euro.

Or whatever. 

Will: Okay. Okay. The Glock flock is 

Kristin: not for sale. No, I’m saying, are you going to make us buy some land somewhere? So we can all live with our patrons? For this village. Absolutely. You keep talking about it as though 

Will: it’s a place. It’s a good idea. Would you, as a, a patrons, let me know over on Patreon.

Do you want to live with us? I promise 

Kristin: you, you do not. You might think you do, but you don’t know what happens over here. Whoo, 

Will: all right, we’ll leave it at that. Early ad free episode access, interactive Q& A, live stream events, much more! Patreon. com slash Glockenflecken, or go to Glockenflecken. com. Speaking of Patreon community perks, new member shout out to Omar P, Anthony C, Kim Y, and Jennifer B.

Welcome to all of you! We love having you. As always, a virtual shout out to the Jonathans. [00:53:00] Actually, it’s not a virtual, it’s a real shout out. This is virtual. Shout out. Anyway, shout out to all the Jonathans, Patrick, Lucia C, Sharon S, Omer, Edward K, Steven G, Jonathan F, Marion W, Mr. Grandaddy, Kaitlyn C, Brianna L, Leah D, KL, Rachel L, Keith G, JJ H, Derek N, Mary H, Susannah F, Mohamed K, Aviga, Parker, Ryan, Michael Meg.

Bubbly Salt, and Pink 

Kristin: Macho. We got to meet Pink Macho. We did, we met Pink Macho. That was one of the highlights of the whole thing for me. At our live show in December. Yep. It was great. It was so cute because she just came up and was talking to us, and we took a picture and whatnot, and she goes, Oh, by the way, I’m Pink Macho.

Oh, by the way, I’m Pink Macho. Just throw that out there. By the way, no, you start with that. Yeah, you lead with 

Will: Pink Macho. That’s right. Patreon roulette, random shout out to someone on the emergency medicine tier. We got Jonathan G. Thank you, Jonathan, for being a patron and thank you all for listening.

We’re your hosts, Will and Kristen Flannery, also known as the Glockenflecken. Special thanks to our guest today, Dr. Uche Blackstock. Our executive producers are Will Flannery, Kristen Flannery, [00:54:00] Aaron Brong, Galini Korney, Rob Goldman Goblin, uh, Shahnti Creek Brooke. What is happening? Someone, uh, knows that I will read anything on this page.

And, um And added some nicknames for our producers. Thank you for that, I’m sure, assuming it was, uh, Rob Goblin Goldman. Or it could have been Aron Broccolini 

Kristin: Korney. Yeah, either one of those, 

Will: I would Either one. I wouldn’t put it past Shahnti Creek Brooke, either. Our editor and engineer is Jason Portizar, and the music is by Omer Ben Zvi.

To learn about our network highs, program disclaimer, ethics, policy, submission, verification, licensing, terms, and HIPAA release terms! I’ve never Have you read the submission licensing terms? I’ve Or is it Submission, Verification, and Licensing Term? Submission Is this a licensing term? 

Kristin: I think you’re overthinking this.

Will: Maybe. But I’m sure someone’s interested. No, no one’s interested. Only people in law school. You can go to Glocken Glockenplugin. com or reach out to us at knackknackhigh at human content. com with any questions, concerns, [00:55:00] or fun medical puns. Knackknack High is a human content production. Goodbye. Hey, Kristen.


You know, sometimes I come home from work and I just, like, feel really run 

Kristin: down. Yeah, because, you know, despite popular opinion, you actually do see a fair number of patients every day. 

Will: I do. My clinics are pretty busy, but I’m not the only physician that feels that way. So many people feel overwhelmed and burdened.

So much that work life balance feels impossible. Yeah, 

Kristin: nobody gets into this job for the paperwork. 

Will: Most people, definitely not me. And, uh, but let me tell you about the Nuance Dragon Ambient Experience, or DAX for short. Tell me. This is AI powered ambient technology. It sits down in the room with you. It’s transforming healthcare with clinical documentation.

that writes itself. Ooh, 

Kristin: that sounds nice. It’s like having 


Kristin: Jonathan there. Yeah, perfect. [00:56:00] And I got some stats for you. 

Will: Ooh, I love stats. You’re going to love this. Seven minutes is saved per encounter by reducing clinical documentation time by 50%. 

Kristin: Seven minutes, that’s an entire surgery 

Will: for you. Yeah, that’s what DAX can do for you.

And across all specialties, 70 percent of physicians report a reduction in feelings of burnout and fatigue. That’s pretty incredible. It really is cool technology. Uh, to learn more about the Nuance Dragon Ambient Experience or DAX, visit nuance. com slash discover DAX. That’s N U A N C E dot com slash discover D A X.