The Great Resignation of Nurses | Amie Varley and Sara Fung (The Gritty Nurse Pod)



Singers: Knock, Knock, Hi! Knock, Knock, Hi!

Will: Hello, welcome to Knock, Knock, Hi! with the Glockenfleckens! I am Dr. Glockenflecken, also known as Will Flannery. I am Lady Glockenflecken, also known as Kristen Flannery. Thank you for being here on your commute. Yeah. We’re so happy you’re listening, or you’re watching, whatever you’re doing. Oh, do you think people use us to fall asleep?

They use my I have been told I have a somewhat soporific voice. Yeah, tell me about it.

You set me up for that one. I’m like a, like an ASMR type of voice. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. And then maybe we should do a special sleep episode and we’ll use our best. I’m already doing the eye episodes. That’s probably enough. That is true. That’s enough [00:01:00] for me. Uh, people, but people also listen to the Knock Knock Eyes while they’re driving.

Kristin: Yes, so not doesn’t don’t do that. Some eyeballs make you bored enough to fall asleep. Some people it makes them very excited Yes, some people lots of people are very interested in it. I can see the point It’s just I’m not one of them But you know more power to you and I am happy that we can provide a service to you Are you excited about April?

April? I’m always excited about April because by that point I am ready Winter to just get out of here. Yes Um It starts getting crazy in our lives. It does. That is the one downside. April, May. April is Very busy conference season. April and May is conference. Is like when everybody, everybody wants to have their medical conferences.

Will: Yes. And we do a lot of conference the fall we get two like really busy periods of time. Yep. But it’s good. It’s good stuff. I like, you know, going around and [00:02:00] traveling. Talking to people, sharing our story, and you know, being able to like, be on the ground. Like, normally we’re just here in this room. You know, just the two of us talking to ourselves.

Kristin: So it’s nice to actually get out and like, meet people. Have we ever done any April Fool’s jokes to each other? Do you think it would be possible at this point? Um, I feel like it’d be really, really hard. I could probably prank you. I don’t know if you could. Oh, you are deathly afraid of spiders. Oh, well, okay.

Um, if you’re gonna go that route, the cheap joke route. Sure. Well, see, I think all, like, I’ve, there’s so many, like, prank accounts on TikTok. Mm hmm. And, um, Most of them are kind of mean like a lot of like jump scare. Well, it’s just not I don’t know I my face watching those is just like I just have no reaction like that.

Will: I don’t know I’ve never been like a prank kind of humor person though. [00:03:00] That’s true. I think we have one of our daughters though is To prank us. Yeah, they try to prank us And we, we, we’re good sports about it, we pretend to be. Yeah, I do remember when April Fool’s joke was not appreciated when I was a kid.

Kristin: We would try to prank my dad in particular because he was, you know, not, um, he’s not, well, How does, he was just busy. He had a lot going on, a lot on his mind, very stressed out. You know, that period of life that we’re in now, right? That’s where he was. And it’s, there’s just a lot. He was working his ass off and he didn’t feel like being pranked.

Correct. And so one day we put Rice Krispies in his work boots. That he had to wear to go and you know when you’re like trying to get out the door in the morning and you’re in A rush and everything and so he put his foot in and just crunched down on all these rice. He was not abused not Amused that’s a good one.

We thought that’s a good that’s a good like kid But you know, we didn’t have the like awareness yet to be like, [00:04:00] that’s not the time Not the time. When he’s getting ready, trying to get off to work and he’s, he’s got, now he’s got to clean all that. Yep. All that shit out. And he’s probably going to miss some of it and it’s going to crunch his booze all day and, you know, just wasn’t appreciated, but it was a good effort.

Will: He’s like, ahhh! That’s probably the sound. I’m sure that was the sound he made when he stepped in his boot. Ah, definitely some form of, of yelling. Yeah. Yeah. It may have been more like that. Oh man. I’m excited about the, the April Fool’s jokes we have in our future, particularly me. I’m sure the kids will get into it.

Kristin: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we’ve got one kid who’s Well, both kids have a really good sense of humor, but one kid who, who leans toward the pranking especially. So, yeah, I’m sure we’re in for it. Let’s talk about our guests. Let’s do it. This fine April day. Yes. It’s a very, uh, it’s an appropriate day to be having these guests because they have a book out today.

April 2nd. Absolutely. Uh, the Wisdom of [00:05:00] Nurses. We’re talking to Sarah Fung and Amy Archibald. Uh, they are hosts of the Gritty Nurse Podcast and authors of The Wisdom of Nurses out today. You can go find it. Yes, go get it. Go get it. Um, they are, uh, incredible nurses. They’ve been, they’ve worked on the, at the bedside as, uh, in leadership, nursing leadership.

Will: They are healthcare patient advocates. They just done a lot of things. And, and it was fun to hear their perspective because we don’t do a lot of nurse interviews on this podcast, but that’s going to change. That’s gonna change. All right. We’re gonna do, we’re gonna do more. We’re gonna, we’re gonna branch out a little bit, get out outside of my comfort zone as a physician.

Kristin: Right. Yeah. Which is under, I mean, that’s just, that’s what you are. Yeah. There’s no shame in that. It’s what you know. But now we can, um, now that we have this podcast it’s a good opportunity to learn about other perspectives as well. Absolutely. So, um, it was a great conversation, learned a lot. So should we get to it?

Will: What do you say? Let’s go. All right. Here we go.[00:06:00] 

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Alright, we are here with Sarah Fung and Amy Archibald Varley, uh, uh, two, uh, extraordinary nurses who are doing some incredible things out there in healthcare. Uh, we’re so excited to have you on. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thank you for having us. Come and do us from, um, the great white north.

in Canada. Uh, how’s, are you doing okay? And uh, is the winter long? Does it feel long to you guys? This is the worst part. It’s been going on approximately forever. [00:07:00] It’s really annoying us right now in Portland because it just won’t stop raining. It’s funny you ask because it’s actually really warm today.

Sara Fung, RN: So Let’s see, 20 Celsius, which is like in the 70s, like low 70s today. And then it’s going to go cold again tomorrow. Yeah, there’s no snow. It’s actually green grass. So it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit of anomaly, a little bit worried about climate change here. Yeah, I mean, it’s nice for today, but it’s also terrifying.

Kristin: It’s good, but the earth is dying. So, little problems here. We’ve got a few years there. That’s funny. Cause here it’s abnormally cold, so it’s, everything’s just all messed up right now. Well, uh, what I want to start with is, so I did a little bit of research. I actually Googled how many nurses are there in, in, I didn’t check Canada, but I checked the U.

Will: S. There’s 3 million nurses, uh, registered nurses currently in the U. S. My question for you is, where are they?

We [00:08:00] have the same question. Right, right. I’m sure it’s the same in Canada as well. Uh, where, because all I hear all the time is, is like staffing, right? That’s it, hospitals, surgery centers. It just, that’s like the, the, the, one of the biggest frustrations. So I figure that’s maybe a good place to start is what, what’s going on right now?

Sara Fung, RN: That’s a great question. I, you know, I’ve heard different numbers for the states. I’ve heard 4 million. So maybe 1 million have just gone missing in the last few years. Oh, maybe. I did, literally all I did was search on Google how many nurses there are. So don’t, so take that number with a grain of salt.

Will: There’s probably a lot more. That’s a great question. I know, I know in Canada, supposedly there are 400, 000 nurses, which makes sense because we’re probably 10 times smaller than you guys, but I don’t know where they are. And that’s, that’s a question Amy and I have asked a lot because on paper there’s this many nurses, but are they actually working or have they left the profession?

Sara Fung, RN: Are they doing something else? [00:09:00] That’s a really difficult question to answer. And I think since the beginning of time, I’m going to say retention and staffing has always been an issue. But of course, the pandemic pulled back the veil and really exacerbated a lot of these underlying issues with staffing.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Yeah. Yeah. And maybe I would just chime in there in terms of kind of where I might think they are as well. Cause I think there’s a difference between, um, registered nurses. So any, any nurse can register, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re working and practicing in the hospital. So that’s where there’s.

There’s a discrepancy. I know here in Canada, we, we, we collect our registration data, but we don’t collect where nurses are necessarily, like, dispersed data. So that’s the problem what we have. We say, oh yeah, we have all these amazing nurses that we should have boots on the ground, but we actually don’t know where they are all geographically and where they might be situated.

So that’s what the problem is really too. Yeah. Yeah. And so it’s been the pandemic really kind of kicked off this, this great resignation is the term I’ve heard from a lot of [00:10:00] people. And, um, you’ll have to excuse me if I, if I ask some, um, basic questions about nursing, cause as a physician, like this is great.

Will: I’m so excited about this just because like, I don’t, I don’t get to, I don’t have this kind of conversation with nurses very often, so it’d be, it’s going to be a lot of fun, I think, to Get into your profession. So it might be very basic for you guys, like, you know, but, but for me and a lot of our audience, I think this will be helpful to, to hear like the issues that nurses are facing and, and how we’re in this, uh, or how at least our healthcare system, and I’m sure you have trouble in your healthcare system as well.

Um, that’s making it more difficult for healthcare professionals, but, um, the, One thing that I also want to know about was this, the, this topic of travel nursing, like travel nursing has been around for a long time. Um, and it seems like that’s becoming more common in hospitals, I guess, is it that they need more staffing?

They’re [00:11:00] low on staffing. And so. They, they, is there a service that you can, you know, just hire someone to come in from anywhere in the country or the world and have them do nursing for you? Is that, how does that work? Yeah. I mean, like here we, we call it a mix between like travel nursing as well as like privacy, private agency nursing.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: And I’ll be honest, it’s kind of nurses going to where the money is and where the incentives are. Nurses are de incentivized right now. A lot of us are very not happy with the way, whether it’s staffing levels, whether it’s. you know, keeping us on board, whether it’s treating us well. For example, in here in Canada, in Ontario, we had a bill called Bill 124, which actually restricted our wages and capped our wages during the pandemic, which you would think it’d be a time where, yeah, it was crazy.

And it was actually deemed unconstitutional. Our government was actually fighting with nurses. And just recently, um, The government lost. It said it was unconstitutional, so they had to reverse the bill. But again, just kind of bringing it back, it’s the fact that, you know, nurses It doesn’t make any [00:12:00] sense.

It doesn’t make any sense. They should have just paid nurses what they deserved in the first place, right? And avoided all of this. Yeah. But essentially, like, it’s going to where the money is, right? And going where incentives are. If an organization is willing to pay you 175 an hour versus 30 an hour, you might decide to go with an agency or you might decide to travel because there are better bonuses.

But again, it leaves those staffing, the staffing for, you know, base staffing to be quite horrible because these nurses are only assigned at various different intervals. So whether it’s three months, it’s just a short assignment. So, um, but it leaves, you know, those staffing levels at the base level really, really low because nurses are being pulled to the private sector.

Sara Fung, RN: Yeah, and I would say also, it’s really about having more control over your work schedule, because a lot of nurses don’t have that. You can only get hired into a full time nursing position, whereas if you’re a travel nurse, you can kind of pick and choose, or you can take time off in between assignments, and a lot of nurses will actually quit the job they’re at.

at, at the hospital and take [00:13:00] a travel nurse position and go back to that exact same hospital getting paid double. And so you can imagine, you can imagine the dynamics that creates. I mean, why wouldn’t, right? Like if I was making, let’s say, let’s say I was making 50 bucks an hour and Amy comes back as a travel nurse, and makes 100 an hour.

That creates a lot of animosity within the team. You know, why is one person getting paid twice as much as the other to do literally the same job?

Will: And I can’t imagine that, uh, you already, we already have enough trouble, like in the, the day to day grind of healthcare and then to add the kind of interpersonal conflicts that, that I’m sure brings up, um, uh, is, uh, challenging to say the least. Whose idea was this? Well, I mean, this, this begs the question.

So what do we do to, is it just pay? Is that, I mean, cause everyone’s always trying to come up with, you know, [00:14:00] All these different solutions for how to improve retention and to make people happier in their jobs. But it can’t just be the money part of it, right? There’s, there’s gotta be other, other factors that are pushing people outside, out of nursing.

And so can you speak on that a little bit? Yeah, I would definitely say it’s not just the money. Money is a part of it, but it’s also about like the respect, right? I think one of the things that we did see during the pandemic was, you know, here in Canada, too, there were, you know, lots of banging of pots and pans, people celebrating nurses, and then it kind of took a little bit of a shift where there was, there was, There was like a political discourse, an underlying political discourse that started to kind of emerge.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: And healthcare became very politicized. And then we were seeing, well, went from banging of pots and pans to some healthcare workers actually, you know, try sneaking into hospitals, being yelled at, being spat at. It was, it was crazy. The, The flip in terms of how people were being treated. And again, I think it’s also looking at just staffing levels.

So I’ve [00:15:00] probably worked as a nurse for over 10 to 15 years now, and we’ve been talking about staffing levels for, since the time I was in nursing school. So it’s kind of like, why aren’t we dealing with these issues? These like huge levels of staff, like issues with staffing. So just like we’re always working short, the hospital’s underfunded, we’re not getting enough nurses, and that was always a challenge because at the end of the day we want to give the best care that we can but we can’t if we don’t have all the resources, we don’t have the funding.

the actual physical bodies to help us provide that. So I know some states, for example, like California has staffing ratios. So it’s like one to five, one to four. We don’t, we don’t have that here. BC just here in Canada has just started that, but we haven’t even had that conversation. And I think the other piece is like, we’re a female dominated profession.

There are, of course, men, and we welcome more men and folks of various different backgrounds to, to apply and be in nursing. But, um, it presents that challenge when, you know, you have. Child care, and those things aren’t even talked about, so it makes it really complex [00:16:00] for us to want to stay in the profession when we’re not being respected or heard, and I think maybe Sarah will talk to this, um, at the beginning of the pandemic we heard a lot from physicians, but we didn’t hear from nurses, and nurses were still And that’s kind of where Sarah and I stepped into this really strange realm where we just started speaking openly about our experiences, which was very scary, but it was important because nursing voice wasn’t heard for a very long time and we felt we need to fill that gap.

Sara Fung, RN: Yeah, there were. Yeah, Sarah, tell us about that a little bit. Just about filling the gap. Yeah, I think that, um, just going back to what Amy said with, um, you know, safe staffing ratios. It is a scary, scary thought to think that you might be the only nurse for the entire unit. And that did happen during the pandemic where there would be one nurse for 20 patients.

And how can you really do anything except hand out medications? Nevermind, you know, provide that emotional support and that teaching that patients really need. And that creates a lot of emotional distress, moral distress among nurses that we know the level of care that’s needed, yet [00:17:00] we can’t provide it and we can never keep up with it.

We need to do. Um, so I think there’s a lot of different issues. So pay, safe staffing, whatever’s happening on the West Coast. I think the rest of our countries need to get on board because like Amy said, California, BC now have actual legislation with how many patients a nurse can have. And even out in California, they have something called a break relief nurse.

And I’d never even heard of this before, so I think they’re doing some really great things and we could definitely take a lesson or two from them in terms of what the rest of us need to do. So a break, a break nurse is literally someone, I’d never heard of this before, but some A break? You get a break?

Will: Yeah! So there’s a nurse that basically goes around to all the other nurses and says, Hey, I’m going to take care of your patients for a week. Let’s say half an hour while you go have a break because usually what I’m used to and probably Amy’s used to, we go on break and we have someone cover our patients for that time, right?

Sara Fung, RN: So that’s all we really have. It’s not an actual extra body. Yes. It’s just [00:18:00] other nurses taking on more work so that you could go to the bathroom. Right. Right. Sometimes and sometimes not, right? It’s wild. Yeah, going back to the stopping ratios for a second. So you, you mentioned that it’s like one to 20 sometimes, and that’s obviously not ideal.

Kristin: That’s outrageous. But what, just for those of us who are not in, in medicine or, or nursing, what do you, what is a, What is a good ratio? What is a safe ratio? What allows you to do your job well? I think it depends on the area. Sorry. Sorry. It depends on the area that you’re in. So if you’re in a critical care area, such as ICU or even labor delivery with, um, an actively laboring woman, it’s one to one or one to two possibly.

Sara Fung, RN: But in other, um, I would say more medical surgical areas where patients sleep at night, um, it might be one to four during the day and one to six. in the evening when people are supposed to be sleeping, but laboring patients don’t sleep, as you know, and, um, in the [00:19:00] ICU, they need really, uh, close monitoring.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Yeah, I’d say more like in LTC, you might see those really high ratios. So sorry, LTC is long term care. You might see those really high ratios where it’s one RN to 20 plus, and that’s not safe as well. Right. So you’re doing essentially, you know, just to translate this, depending on the area, you’re doing, like, The work of three to twenty nurses.

Kristin: One nurse is having to do. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it does depend on the severity of the patients of the care or the complexity I should say. Right. Like the acuity. Yeah. Yeah. But just like for other people listening, like imagine whatever your job is that you have to now do that job for three to twenty people and it’s just you.

That’s absurd. And then they’re capping your pay. Yeah. No wonder. I think we figured out where the nurses are going. I mean, my goodness. Who? It takes a special person to have to, to like, stay during [00:20:00] all of this. This is, this is stupid working conditions. And then you get a, for a nurse’s week, you get a, like a, a rock.

Oh, don’t even talk to me about nurse’s week. Paperweights. What’s your favorite Nurses Day gift, Nurses Weekend Shift? Oh, I saw some really good things. There’s been some really, yeah. I think some managers think that nurses are children and they would give them like gummy bears and jelly beans and they’d write a little note that would be like, you’re so sweet, like that kind of stuff.

Sara Fung, RN: Which I think is degrading. Like classroom, elementary classroom. Oh, the best thing I saw was Amy just about the rock. It was like, um, here’s a rock. Yeah. Now bring your own paint to paint your rock for Nurses Week. You’ve got arts and crafts, like maybe you can get a We’re not even gonna supply you with the art materials, you bring your own.

Will: Or the time to do it. When are you gonna, when are you gonna paint your rock on your You’re doing 20 people’s jobs. On our breaks. Right? [00:21:00] Oh my goodness. I would say that I saw every, every, every nurse’s week. I, same thing happens on like, you know, doctor’s day, um, where everybody loves making fun of the hospital gifts.

Right. And that inspired me. I did a video, I think it was last year about all these, um, silly gifts, these gifts, and then the puns that they attach to the gifts, which is just makes it so much worse. Well, so let’s talk about, I mean, we’ve kind of alluded to it, but let’s just, you guys are all about just.

Kristin: saying the thing. So let’s say the thing. What would you, what would actually be a good nurse’s gift? What would show appreciation to nurses? PTO. Yes. Yes. Yeah. 100%. Because it’s funny that you said that. It’s like, I heard nurses talking about like, Oh, I couldn’t make my wedding date or I had to shift my wedding plans.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: And it’s like, what are we doing? And it’s just, there are nurses that are like, I can’t, I can’t take PTO. It’s like, What do you mean? You can’t, you’re working so [00:22:00] hard and we can’t take a break. Yeah, that would be a lovely gift. Pizza is not on the list though. Like I know, yes, we love food, but pizza is not on the list.

Right. We’ll be on pizza at this point. I think it’s giving us some steak, right? Giving nurses some agency to make some decisions. I think that’s probably what nurses would really want. And I think that, you know, when I think about what, you know, what I would have wanted. I, I, it’s not about just being on a committee, it’s just being able to have some form of agency in, in how we go about doing our work.

So yeah, I mean, it’s sad to say that it would be nice to have a break nurse or someone like that where I can take a full break. Or even, um, I’ll be honest, like, worthy mental health resources, because I think that’s the other thing that we don’t get. Um, there’s something called presumptive care. So it’s like a legislation which puts nurses with firefighters and EMS and police that if they were to experience, you know, violence or trauma on the job, that they can get, you know, PTSD and support.

and, [00:23:00] and resources. We don’t have presumptive care here. It’s crazy. We don’t, although there’s stats that show that we have the same levels or higher levels of trauma and mental health, we don’t have access to those resources. We would have to pay out of pocket, or we’d have like an EAP where you, you know, you tell your story to someone for three Three sessions and then it’s over.

So I think that, you know, if maybe we had some better resources that were actually, you know, organizations said, Hey, we value you, we want you to be here, and we’re gonna look after you from a mental health standpoint, I think that’d be really great. Yeah. And I think that that would be, yeah. You know, I almost wish that there was.

Sara Fung, RN: Um, a patient’s, like, code of conduct almost. Because I’ve heard so much about violence in health care, and especially during the pandemic, it’s gotten a lot worse for nurses. And we have very few of any resources if we’re physically attacked or verbally abused by a patient or their families. And, um, It’s always like, well, we need to provide care at all costs, but I, I do feel like there needs to be some onus or some [00:24:00] accountability for people that abuse nurses.

Just like if you were to hurt a police officer, there are repercussions for that. So I almost think something like that for Nurses Week would be nice. And just like, I guess going from a political approach, I almost wish that in our neck of the woods, we could get an apology from some of the politicians that capped our wages and did other things that were really harmful to the nursing profession.

Yeah. Give it, give us a list later and we’ll try to get them on the podcast. I have, I’ve got the names, numbers, emails. I’ll hook you up. We’ll try to get some apologies out of these folks. Well, you said something, uh, Amy, earlier that, um, you know, kind of piqued my interest in the, in the fact that a lot of nurses felt that, Or maybe continue to feel like they can’t really speak out, um, uh, because of either just probably, probably mostly like job repercussions, right?

Will: You don’t want to get in trouble. So, so how did the two of [00:25:00] you, maybe we’ll start with Sarah, like decide you wanted to have this bigger platform? What, what was the, I guess, the genesis of this doing the podcast, the gritty nurse podcast, um, And just, you know, being a vocal speakers about, about patient rights and, and just help, help, help us navigate your, your path from, uh, you know, practicing nurse.

Uh, seeing patients to, to doing more of this public appearance. Well, I think it was similar to your journey. I don’t know if Amy and I intended for everything to happen that happened and we started right before the pandemic. So, um, Amy and I worked together in two different hospitals, um, in, in similar roles and there were a lot of, instances where we felt bullied, we felt silenced and we tried to take our concerns up to senior leadership and they kept saying they were going to look into it and we knew after a while they weren’t going to.

Sara Fung, RN: So, what was the role you were in? I’m just getting started. So, um, we were, we were in nursing leadership, Amy and I, and, um, doing, we were like educators [00:26:00] basically. So we were responsible for helping new nurses, um, learn the job and also continuing education for nurses who had already been there. Um, and, and doing things like quality improvement.

So, um, we actually experienced a lot of bullying in nursing leadership, which is surprising because you would think that, I don’t know what I thought. I didn’t think that would be the case when I moved from bedside to nursing leadership, but it was almost worse. And I think, you know, Amy and I would drive home and we’d have these phone calls as we were driving home just to kind of vent and debrief about everything.

And, Now, when I think about how we do the podcast, it’s kind of similar. Like, even the amount of time it took us to have these phone calls, that’s kind of the length of the podcast that we have now. And it was just like feeling frustrated that we tried to bring our concerns up to leadership and they weren’t doing anything.

So we just said, you know what, why don’t we create our own platform and share our stories. And you know, we’re sure that someone out there has experienced what we have and we don’t want them to feel alone. So that was the beginning of how [00:27:00] it started. And then the pandemic happened and then everything kind of snowballed from there.

Will: Yeah, how do you, how did you, so you saw the, the, this bullying, this type of mentality from nursing leadership. Um, or is it from nursing or toward nursing leadership? I, is that, it’s a little bit from A and B. Yeah, I would say, yeah, but mainly it was from our colleagues and later on, it was our manager. So what do you do when it’s your manager?

Sara Fung, RN: That’s the bully because that’s usually the person you’re supposed to go to for help. So, so what did you, I guess, how did you, were you successful in changing that culture at all? Like, what were the steps that you took to, to set a new standard? Well, I mean, I’ll let Amy speak because she actually wrote a letter and tried to do other things to, you know, try and make the situation better.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Yeah, it was, it was really wild because, you know, I think again, um, we have something called an internal [00:28:00] reporting system and, you know, you could, you could put anything in there, anything from like patient care incidences up to like something personal. So again, what Sarah said, how can you put in, you know, that you’re being harassed or bullied by your leadership when that IRS will go to your leadership team?

So I remember reaching out to leaders that were higher than this individual and they’re like, Oh, we’ll, we’ll investigate. And I kind of, I don’t know if you’ve heard of this. um, that happened recently is called a letter to my abuser. And I did something similar where I kind of wrote this letter about the healthcare system and particularly that, you know, systems continue to perpetuate people, lift people up who continue to do really poor work.

And not just poor work, but continue to bully those. Although this person might be producing results that the hospital wants, they’re also doing it off of the backs of their, you know, their nursing staff. And they said to me, Oh, you know, we’re going to make changes. We’re going to change the way that we look at mental health here.

I have heard nothing. Okay. Not a [00:29:00] word. I think I left that place and I actually quit without having any prospects. Because I just knew that it was actually best for my mental health. I was actually really, really sick. And I was actually at the point where I felt that I might’ve taken my own life. And I said, you know what?

I had a lot of support. So I had people that were really standing around me and I just knew that I had to leave. So I left with no prospects. And it kind of leads into what Sarah mentioned. I said to Sarah one day, I said, why don’t we just start a podcast? And I remember her being like, what’s that?

podcast. And I was like, my cousin has one, let’s listen. And I was just like, you know, who, who knows who’s listening? I’m like, but at least we can share our stories. Cause I think storytelling is really powerful and it can’t be just us. We’re not the only people that are experiencing this. Other folks must experience this too.

So we just started telling our stories and it kind of took off from there. And then again, like Sarah said, the pandemic hit and It was very interesting. Um, we actually, there were physicians that were kind of talking on behalf of [00:30:00] nurses, um, talking about, you know, things that were happening and what they saw in nursing.

And I said to Sarah, I’m like, this is crazy. Why are physicians speaking for nurses? I went into the Twitterverse before it turned into like, you know, A little bit of a mess. And I was just like, why is, why are physicians talking for nurses? Talk to nurses. And we had our first national news hit. They reached out to us.

It was the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for a national news piece to talk about nursing and that we’re here and we’re ready to be a part of the call. And we had no idea what we were doing. Um, they’re just like, put your camera on zoom and, you know, we’ll ask you these questions. And it was, Terrifying.

It was so scary. And the thing is like, you, we can’t see ourselves, but you can see them on the other end and hear them. And then there was like a little bit of a delay because then they pulled our video up and I’m like, Oh my God, there I am on TV. I’m trying to answer this person’s question. And I’m like, Oh my gosh.

But I think it started this [00:31:00] whole movement. for us to start talking about what we were seeing, what we were hearing, um, our experiences. And, um, it was definitely a process, but it was something well worthwhile because we need to be seen in those spaces as well. Oh, absolutely. It’s so interesting to me.

Kristin: Like we have different healthcare systems, obviously, the U. S. and Canada and, um, different issues in each system. But despite that, like it, what I’m hearing, that’s the same is that. It’s so easy for our healthcare systems and institutions to forget about the humanity of the people in the institutions, you know, whether that’s patients or nurses or physicians.

I mean, I’m seeing it at every single level, you know, that it’s just, Something that is so overlooked is just like, how do we make sure that everyone in these walls has their basic human needs and dignity respected and taken care of? And, and it’s [00:32:00] interesting and discouraging and frustrating, you know, to see that this seems to be an issue that, you know, crosses international lines even.

And, and how do we, I mean, I don’t know, I think it’s a, it’s a long term fix. I don’t know. To, to fix that, but it just needs to be pointed out. Like that’s our mission, right? As our company is just to, to bring, you know, humanity back into healthcare in, in various ways. And I’m, I just, I don’t know. It strikes me.

Will: Yeah. And I’m, I’m so glad you were able to, to be there, like be that nursing voice. Yeah. I didn’t, I honestly didn’t even think about that. I mean, there’s, there was, Um, it’s, it’s funny you say like you didn’t know you had really didn’t know what you were doing and it was scary. Like nobody knew what they were doing at that time, right?

Right, right. That’s true. Like all, like, I don’t know how many of us like knew what Zoom was like before 2020. I don’t think I had ever, you know, I did. You probably did, but you were working remotely for like several years, right? But um, [00:33:00] uh, it’s, Just good on you for like recognizing that, that, uh, that gap and that there’s no way the public should have only been hearing from physicians.

Especially about topics like the nursing shortage. I think that’s what drove me over the edge. It’s like, why were you talking about the nursing shortage? You would never ask a nurse about the physician shortage, right? Right. Or like in our country, you know, men making decisions about women’s health. Right.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Yeah, it was so weird because they would create all these tables and forums. So they’re like, Oh, here’s the COVID 19 task force. And there’s like 15 doctors and like, not a nurse. And I was like, really? Like we’re the one, like, there was actually a cute little saying that’s like, you know, we give the shots.

Why can’t we call the shots? Right. And I think it was just. We were left off of so many agency making or decision making tables where it was just like, Sarah and I were just like, you know what, fine, if you don’t want to invite us to the table, we’ll kind of create [00:34:00] our own. And that’s kind of how the podcast spring kind of, it was like a springboard for us because the other piece that led us into a variety of different things, like actually doing some work in politics, you know, working with political leaders across Canada and being able to have that say because I don’t think that otherwise if if not even just myself and Sarah but if you know nurses didn’t start speaking up that we would be left off and it’s just kind of like we’re seen and not heard.

We’re like these angels and we do all this great work but we’re not really heard from and we really want to change how that looks. That always makes me mad because you see the same thing with like moms or let’s be honest Most female dominant professions, teaching, right? Where you praise them effusively in the, this most important jobs in the world and all these things.

Kristin: And it’s like, well, then pay us, you know, like, or whatever the issue is, you know, show it in your actions, not your words. Yeah. What kind of things would you guys, you know, what kind of agency is missing? Like what [00:35:00] types of issues would you like to have agency and decision making power around? Yeah, I think we nurses need to be seen a little bit more in politics.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: I know you guys have some really great nurses out there. We always like shout out. We’re like, Hey, Cori Bush, come on her podcast. But I think we just need to see more nurses in various different roles, right? And I think that, you know, when we have that ability to, you know, be in politics, be in communications, be in the media, that you’ll see nursing in a very different light.

And we’re actually giving, you know, the public a little bit of a different insight into how nurses operate. Cause I think that there’s a little bit of a fallacy where nurses. just work at the bedside, but we can see, be seen as so much more different areas. And I feel that when I think about, you know, patient outcomes or I think about policy, how can we not be a part of that?

We deliver the care, we see the intricacies and the issues that happen right at the bedside or in, or in public health. And how can we not be a part of how these policies or these, these things are formed? So it’s just, That’s what I mean by agency, but for whatever reason, we’re just [00:36:00] not seen as, you know, leaders in these areas, or we’re not seen as experts in these areas.

We’re, um, we’re starting to change that because we really are, and we need, that voice needs to be heard, and we, that perspective needs to be given as well. I would love to see more nurses in business. I think that’s another area that’s missing, um, more nurses. that are CEOs, especially of hospitals and other healthcare organizations.

Sara Fung, RN: One of the things that our journey led us to is also we have a book coming out. So, um, that’s coming out April 2nd. And one of the, the opening part of the book is like, can you name a famous nurse, but it can’t be Florence Nightingale. And that’s where people usually get stuck because we’ve had this one nurse that people have looked up to for over a hundred years.

And why don’t we have other nurses who are actually alive that people know You know, I think, I think that’s definitely something we need to keep amplifying. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. Yeah, I want to get into your book here. Let’s take a quick break, and then we’ll be right back to talk some more.[00:37:00] 

Will: Hey, Kristen. Yeah. AI tools are everywhere now. That is true, and they’re here to stay. That’s right. Well, have you heard about Precision? What, what is it? This is great. This is the first ever AI tool. EHR Integrated Infectious Disease AI Platform. Ooh, that sounds useful. Infectious disease, it’s a hard field.

You got to figure out when to start antibiotics and, and try to, to decrease resistance and how long to keep the patient, it’s, it’s really tough. Yeah. Well, this is a, an AI tool that automatically highlights better antibiotic regimens. It empowers clinicians to save more lives while reducing their burnout.

To see a demo, go to precision. com slash KKH. That’s precision spelled with an X instead of an E. So P R X C I S I O N. com slash KKH.

All right. We are back with Sarah Fung and, uh, Amy Archibald Varley. Uh, so I have a quick question, uh, coming from the perspective of a physician. Just what, [00:38:00] what is one thing that, Physicians should know about, about their, about the nurses that they work with. Uh, besides like, don’t touch the IV poles. Like we all know that obviously, but like what, what is, what is a way that, that we can help you?

in your, in whatever way you want to interpret that. That’s a good question. Um, I would say just help people understand that it’s not a hierarchy because I think people still think like the doctor’s up here and the nurse is here and we’re just handmaidens that are supposed to take orders. So I think there’s this general public perception that that’s how nursing was a hundred plus years ago, and that’s how it still is.

Sara Fung, RN: So just helping people understand that we are the eyes and ears and backbone of the profession and We are, we’re all on the same team. We just have different roles. That’s what I would want some people to know. And I’d add to that as amplifier voices too, right? So, you know, for every, every [00:39:00] doctor’s show or every, you know, podcast that there might be, Like, for example, what you’re doing today, you’re amplifying nursing voice.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: So if you have the opportunity, you have the platform, you have the wherewithal, please amplify what’s happening in the, in our nursing profession, because there is agency and power in your voice. It’s kind of the whole idea of, you know, power shifting, right? Um, if you have power, Shift it, shift the narrative and share your voice and lend your voice to say, Hey, you know what, although I’m a physician, this is happening.

And here’s a really excellent colleague that can talk to you about this or whatever the case may be, but amplify our issues, amplify us as a profession, and you know, um, bring us to the tables when you can. Uh, great suggestions. Yeah. Uh, so tell me about, um, your book. So I, I’m always impressed by anybody who has the right there.

Will: If you’re watching it on YouTube, you can see it’s just holding it up. It’s the wisdom of nurses. I just want to show you guys, I’m super excited because, [00:40:00] sorry, but we’re in the inside cover too. Like this is legit. This is legit. Nice picture there. That does, that looks, that’s a nice cover. I like it. Yeah.

Oh my goodness. How long have you been working on this book? Oh, almost three years. Almost three years. What an undertaking. Yeah. Yeah. Man. Takes a long time. That alone makes me think I’m never going to write a book. Yeah. It’s like, I don’t know how, it just seems really hard, but so tell me, tell us a bit a bit about it.

What, what can people. Yeah. No one ever like teaches you how to sit down and write a book. No. No. It is definitely a process. Um, so like I mentioned, the book really starts out by saying, can you name a famous nurse? And most people can only name Florence Nightingale, if anybody. So like, we just, we wanted this to be, um, Just opening the public’s eyes as to what type of nursing, like what do nurses actually do and what kinds of diversity exist in nursing.

Sara Fung, RN: So we have a number of stories from different nurses as well as Aimee and my own story [00:41:00] about how we got into nursing and our journey to becoming who we are today. Yeah, and I think, I think what we wanted to do really is shift the perspective, right? I think, again, like, we want people to see nursing in a different light.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: So we’re not just lamp bearers. We are not just, you know, um, we’re not the ladies of the lamp anymore. These kind of various different tropes. We’re not saying, sexy nurses. Like we kind of talk about the myths too, right? We kind of break them down, but we want, we want, um, the, it’s not just a book for nurses.

It’s actually a book for the general public because we want people to really understand where we’re coming from. And the aspect of the power of storytelling is kind of the narrative right through our, our, our book. We’re really telling stories and sharing experiences so people can connect with, you know, the things that we’ve experienced, the things that we’ve said.

so much for joining us today, and we hope that you’ve enjoyed seeing the things that, you know, sometimes you go a little bit on the, you know, funny side, where we may talk about a horror story or something related to healthcare, but I think we just want people to see that we’re, we’re such an eclectic group, we have such a variety of backgrounds, and that we [00:42:00] really want to change and shape the way that people view nurses, because there is wisdom in our voices, and we want people to really understand and acknowledge that, and come on this journey with us.

Kristin: Yeah, I love that title because it just immediately, you know, points out kind of the crux of everything that you’re saying today and through your podcast of you. You have wisdom that you have things to add and things to say and they’re valuable things that. are being ignored. So, you know, being able to give those things a voice is very important.

Will: And who doesn’t love good nursing stories? Really? I mean, you guys see it all. Most of the, I would say the majority of the stories that get sent to us, because we’re always asking for stories, are these great nursing stories. Yeah, we have a few of those in there too, for sure. Good, definitely people should check it out.

But I have a, um, a little activity for us to do, uh, that, let’s see. So, so this is [00:43:00] called name that nurse. Oh, very appropriate for what? Exactly. Oh no, am I going to pass this test? Am I allowed to do that? So we’re going to, We can’t see what you’re doing. This isn’t pro metric. We’re not going to like, you know, you know, we don’t have a lot of, uh, opportunities Check your phones in to the lockers.

Exactly. Avoid cheating. But so what we’re going to do is we’re going to read descriptions of either famous real Or fictitious nurses. All right. All right. Okay. And you gotta try to, you know, guess who it is. Now, some of these are kind of tough, uh, so, oh, don’t, oh, no. Alright, here we go. Or, I think they’re tough, but you, you probably, maybe, yeah.

Have much more knowledge about real and fake nurses out there. Alright, here we go. Considered one of the most iconic movie villains. Oh. She doesn’t yell at her patients In the mental, mental institution where the film takes place. But she does manipulate them in horrible ways, all for her own [00:44:00] purposes. Is it Nurse Ratchet?

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Nurse Ratchet from One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest? Yes! From One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, nice job! Which I haven’t seen that movie in a long time, but that is like the classic evil nurse. She’s pretty bad. There was that Netflix reboot recently, I watched that one. I didn’t even know. I didn’t know. I wasn’t aware about that.

Will: We’re very out of touch. Oh, no. I did hear about people talking about that. Was it, was it called Ratchet? Yeah, it was called Ratchet. Yeah. I think, yeah, that’s right. What’d you think of it? Oh, it was morbid. There’s some, there’s some really sick things. I thought it was okay. Yeah. Gotcha. All right, here we go.

A nurse anesthetist, the co founder of the School of Nurse Anesthesia at Harlem Hospital in 1951, and the first African American president of the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists, Oh no, I saw this name just recently. She was part of the surgical team that operated on Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

After a 1958 assassination [00:45:00] attempt, manually pumping his breathing bag, she also lived to be 103 years old. I just saw her name. Oh, I feel like we should get a pass because we’re in Canada. No, it was literally a part of Black History Month. But no, it was a part of Black History Month and I Okay, maybe we can come back to that.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Oh, no, no, it’s okay. It’s okay. I, I didn’t, I didn’t know this at all. I did, you know, this is research and like you said, you do get a pass because this is very American centric. The answer is Goldie D. Yeah. There was a post about her on LinkedIn a couple of days ago. Yeah. Yeah. What an interesting. Life story.

Kristin: That’s right. I’ll look her up now. It’s incredible. Yeah, right. Goldie D. Brangman. Everybody check her out Uh, she lived to be a hundred and three years old. I can you imagine living another like 70 years? I gotta say, I’m not sure that’d be all it’s going to be. Not with the current save affairs. Like, no, please.

Will: My body’s already falling apart. You’re like [00:46:00] 85, like, I’m ready. Let’s wrap this up. Yeah. Um, okay, here we go. In a school where students contend with everything from werewolves to dragons to vomiting slugs, this nurse is a remarkable healer. Sounds like someone from Hogwarts. It is. You guys remember, I don’t know if you’re Harry Potter fans, if you remember the name of the nurse in Harry Potter.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: The nurse in Harry Potter. Oh my goodness. That’s a hard one. That is a hard one. She’s like mentioned a few times, but she’s not like a main character by any means. It’s Madame Pomfrey. Madame Pomfrey from Harry Potter. What one of the seven was she in? All right, this is, um, I actually feel kind of embarrassed including this one now, but let’s go ahead and do it.

Will: She’s regarded as the founder of modern nursing. She became a champion for nursing as a profession in England and internationally. You probably already know who I’m [00:47:00] talking about. Talking about little Flo. Miss Flo, Nurse Flo. Miss Flo. She founded the first professional school of nursing and her book Notes on Nursing became a foundational text.

Uh, Pioneer in the Use of Statistics, Histogram. Really a fantastic, you know, amazing individual. I mean, there’s a reason that she became famous, but there are more than just the one. That’s right. Right. Yeah. Um, okay. That was an easy one. All right. Here we go. Here’s the, here’s one that, uh, I, this, this might be kind of tough because it’s a little bit older.

Working as the head nurse at the U. S. Mobile Army Surgical Hospital unit during the Korean war. Mary’s no nonsense by the book authority figure nicknamed for the temperature of her lips. I didn’t say Mary Seacole, but maybe I’m wrong. This is from the show. MASH. The show for the temperature of her lips.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Oh my gosh, I was like maybe like seven when MASH was out. I [00:48:00] know. This is a hard one for this group. Margaret Hotlips Oh, I can think of Hotlips in my head too. No, that was a long time ago. That would have been a question for my mom. Sorry. Yeah. Alright, last one I have here. She is a pioneer in establishing nurse midwifery and a system for providing care in rural eastern Kentucky.

Will: She founded the Frontier Nursing Service and later opened the Frontier School of Midwifery and Nursing Services. Well, this is again very American centric. We’re not doing well. I think we’ve gotten two right answers so far. Nurse midwifery. Are you Googling? You’re looking down. I’m looking down for inspiration.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Maybe I should be looking up for inspiration. I have no idea. Mary Breckinridge, Mary Breckinridge. Don’t know her. Don’t know her. Why don’t you guys tell us before we wrap up, tell us about, you [00:49:00] know, one or two nurses that we should know about. Yeah, who should we know? Who should we know about? Well actually, we go through them in our book too.

Sara Fung, RN: We go through about twelve. Can you give us, uh, one or two? Yeah. Well, Amy, Amy and I are wanted, don’t wanna spoil anything. Amy and I, the, we decide that we should be there. You on that list, . I mean, if you’re making the list, why not? Absolutely. It’s your list things in there. You know who I found, who was, who I didn’t actually know about.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: I, I kind of, we know her from a, a variety of other things like the Underground Railroad. But, uh, Harriet Tubman, she was also a nurse. And it kind of threw me for a whirl because she actually lived in St. Catharines, which is in Hamilton. And, uh, yeah, she was also regarded as a nurse. And I was just like, why didn’t we know that Harriet Tubman also was a nurse?

So, um, she had many, many skills and nursing was one of them. And the other one who we still hope to get on our podcast one day is Cori Bush. We’d love to have Cori Bush on the podcast. So Cori Bush, if you’re listening, well, [00:50:00] I, I think, uh, I, I made that a little bit too hard. Yeah. That was pretty tough. So next time when you come on our show, I probably would not, if we did the same thing, but for physicians, I would probably not do very well.

Kristin: Yeah. I don’t know. It’s all good. Historical. The history of medicine. I’m not like a history buff by any means. You knew that about me. Yeah, but I mean, to their point, I think there are physicians that just everybody knows about. If I could go back and redo that, it would be like famous Canadian nurses, I think that might be a little bit easier, a little bit better.

Amie Archibald Varley, RN: Yeah, it’s all good. Well, all right. So I want to make sure that everybody knows about all the things that you guys are doing. So the wisdom of nurses, um, it comes out. April 2nd, is that right? Yep. Yep. We didn’t want to make it April Fool’s, so it’s April 2nd. It’s real, yes. We’re not kidding. We’re really letting out a book.

Singers: Right. You can pre order them, you know, [00:51:00] uh, pre order the book if you’d like. Um, yeah, there it is. The Wisdom of Nurses. Were you guys, were you involved in the cover selection there? Um, they kind of showed us various different designs. There was like actually a surprising amount of conversation that went into the stethoscope, believe it or not.

Sara Fung, RN: Because, yeah, because we were like, what’s one image that could represent nursing? And then we’re like, well, we can’t do the lamp because that’s too antiquated. Um, it can’t be our faces because they said it shouldn’t be a cap or a skirt. No. No. Right. And then we thought a syringe might be a little Sounds like maybe IV pole could have been a Maybe IV pole, but syringe might have been a little violent looking.

So a lot of, yeah, a lot of thought went into this. Blood pressure cuff? I don’t know. Oh, that’s a good idea. I like, But yeah, but the stethoscope, you’re doing manual blood pressures anyway, you’re using that, so stethoscope’s a good choice. Yeah, absolutely. And, and you also got the, the whole thing about, you know, doctors stealing nurses stethoscopes.

Will: Oh, and pens, pens. Pens, I was gonna say, yeah. Would [00:52:00] you like pens for Nurses Week? Good pens. Ones that once that write and don’t and don’t wanna explode all over your scrub. We’re gonna get ourselves in trouble down lge on the really good pens and put nurse on them all. We also have to shout out your podcast, obviously, the Gritty Nurse Podcast.

Uh, listen to a couple episodes. Fantastic. It is. You guys have. Great chemistry together and, uh, what a, uh, awesome insight into nursing. Yeah, the, the recent episode about the, um, yeah, like the, it’s like a true crime, true crime flavor. Zachman? Yes. Yeah, he’s awesome. He’s amazing. Fascinating stuff. So, yeah, definitely check out, uh, the Gritty Nurse Podcast.

Anything else? Where can people find you? Yeah, where can people find, uh, find all the information? Oh, look at this. We’re, well, I mean, you can go to our Sarah, Sarah, drop all the handles. All right. Well, you can go to our website, which is GrittyNurse. com. We have a YouTube channel. We’re on all the major podcast platforms.

Sara Fung, RN: So Apple, Spotify, Google. iHeartRadio. Um, what else? We’re on [00:53:00] Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. We’re, we’re everywhere except TikTok. So don’t look for us on TikTok. Okay. There you go. Still, there’s still time. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. It really was a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much for having us.

Will: Hey, Kristen. Yeah? Notice anything different about me? You look the same as always. Uh, I’m covered in mites. Uh, well, you don’t have to tell everyone that. Maybe you need a mite too. What do you think? I prefer to be mite free. You know what these things are? They’re demodex. I know. They’re enormous. Have you ever had red, itchy, irritated eyelids?

Kristin: No, but that does sound very uncomfortable. It could be caused by one of these little guys. Now, they’re a lot smaller in real life. Well, that’s comforting at least. But it’s, it’s, they’re called demodex and it’s, uh, yeah, it can cause problems with the eyelids. They’re the mites that live on your eyelashes.

Just chomping on all that goo. Now, it might seem gross. But you don’t [00:54:00] want to get grossed out by this. All right. You got to get checked out. That is very sensible. Go to your eye doctor. Ask about demodex blepharitis. All right. That’s really what you got to do. Or DB, if you want to be a little shorthand with it.

Yeah. Make it sound like you know what you’re talking about. To find out more, you can go to eyelidcheck. com. Again, that’s E Y E L I D CHECK. COM to find out more information about these little guys. Tell them Dr. Glockenfleck and sent you. That’s right. Demodex blepharitis.

Will: Well, they were fun. They were fun. We, I, okay. We knew they were good sports. We got game. That was hard. I know. We got to have more nurses on the podcast. Yes. Like if you have suggestions, nominations, absolutely. Uh, it’s, um, yeah, they’re talking about like, you got like platform more, like more healthcare professionals, right?

Get more healthcare is a branch out a little bit, not just physicians. And I’m like, just as bad as [00:55:00] anybody. Just like focusing in on positions. Well, that’s what you are. So, I mean, that’s not necessarily a bad thing to talk about, you know, your experience, but yes, there are a lot of experiences within the healthcare field.

Kristin: There sure are. All right. Should we get a fan story in? Yes. All right. Let’s do it. So this is, um, Melissa. Melissa says, Hi, I just found your podcast, I’ve been listening to the Sawbones episode when you visited. We were on Sawbones, and then they came on ours. That’s right, we had a little crossover. A little home and home thing, which was a lot of fun talking about that.

Will: Yeah, it was like a Twilight Zone, you know, like version of ourselves. Uh, wait, why? It was so bizarre to talk to Oh, because we had, they’re a couple, and we’re a couple, and Like, name other, name another, like, medical comedy Yeah, that’s true. Couple podcast. That’s true. It’s that one. Absolutely. Um, and, let’s see, so she says, uh, saw the Sawbones and was glad to find it because I’ve always [00:56:00] enjoyed the Glock and Flecken posts on social media.

I just noticed I was listening to the episode you all made on the podcast with Justin and Sydney that will From And I wanted to let you know that we have a word for that in our family that my friend Nicole came up with. Nicole and I noticed both, uh, both noticed that our teenage sons tend to do this.

And since my son teaches aerospace lessons in his civil air Patrol Squadron, I’ve heard him say a number of things that were amusingly made up during those lessons, but delivered with perfect confidence. That’s not an area that you want things being made up. We call this testifidence. Testifidence.

Kristin: Testifidence. Testifidence. Okay. There you go. Testifidence because it’s a tendency to testify with perfect confidence. Something that you don’t actually know all the details of. I thought that was going to go to like testosterone because men tend to [00:57:00] do this. I think there’s like a double entendre there with testicles.

Will: Absolutely. I love it. Testifidence. Testify with perfect confidence with your testicles. There you go. That is it. Use your testicles to testify. Yep. Even when you don’t have them, apparently. It still works. So now we have a word for it. I’m going to use that. Testifidence. Alright? Testifidence. So call me out when I have too much testifidence.

It’s going to be a key word now in our house. Thank you, Melissa, and to your friend, Nicole, for coming up with that. Send us your stories, knock knock hi, at human content. com Thanks for joining us, and what a wonderful episode. Let us know what you thought. We’d love to hear your feedback. Uh, again, any, uh, any potential guests that we should think about having on?

We’re always open to suggestions. Uh, you can reach out to us, uh, several ways. You can email us, knack knack human content. com. Um, also game ideas. Yeah. That, [00:58:00] that was That’s surprisingly hard to come up with game ideas after how many episodes. The idea was good, but to, um, basically just that game with the nurse.

Well, it just perfectly encapsulates what they were talking about. How nobody knows anything about nurses. Like coming up with famous nurses either in in real life or in fictional like there’s not a lot out there Right. I was I was disappointed to see that. Um, you did not mention the Outlander nurse.

Kristin: That would have been an easy

Will: Claire Beecham, Randall Fraser. You are so obsessed with that show Alright, email us, knocknockeye at human content. com. We’re on all the social media platforms, uh, also you can hang out with our Human Content Podcast family on Instagram and TikTok. We’re a very supportive family. Very supportive. Human Content Pods on TikTok.

Thanks to all the listeners leaving feedback and [00:59:00] reviews. If you subscribe and comment, you can’t do one, you gotta do both. Subscribe and comment. Don’t comment without subscribing. No, we don’t want that. Well now you’re just getting bossy. Okay, alright, you can do whatever you want. I’m not the boss of you.

Uh, but if you do both of those things on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube, we can give you a shout out like Ashley8833 on YouTube said, we can’t overlook the eyelids. I love how unintended that pun was. Ooh, I bet you didn’t even mean to do that. I did not mean to do that. That’s a good one. He overlooked the eyelid.

That’s good. Mm-Hmm, . It’s in reference to a, a knock knock eye episode. Oh, yes, yes. I did a recently about eyelids. I did a show, I did a podcast episode on, uh, eyelid twitching. Lots of questions about ting. Hey, he twitching. So if you wanna hear, oh, it’s really annoying if you want to hear all of it in excruciating detail.

Go over to that Knock Knock Eye episode. I did not listen to your episode. You never listen to my Knock Knock Eye episodes. I know, but you know, [01:00:00] I hear it on your phone calls. But I haven’t ever heard a call about eyelids, I don’t think. Is, but here, listen, here’s all I want to know. Because that’s an immediate, like, next available appointment.

Eyelid twitching? Yeah, that’s not, it’s not, like, you mean on call? Yeah. No one calls about eyelid twitching. Right. Yeah. I see what you’re saying. Like, that’s a thing that can wait. That’s like a That’s not a pants patient, it’s a thing that can wait. But here’s what I want to know. It goes away. Here’s what I want to know.

Kristin: What makes it go away? Uh How do I make it go away faster? Cause I hate it. You can’t. I mean, you need to get better, more sleep. You need to get, uh, less caffeine. Maybe if you listened to the episode, you would know the answer to these questions, Kristen. He’s like, uh, what am I, what am I, cliff notes over here?

Will: Listen, how much time do you want me to devote to the words you say? It’s a 30 minute episode. Every week. Okay, every morning you listen to Armchair Expert for like four hours. Yeah, [01:01:00] I’m not married to them. You can’t give me 30 minutes of eyeball knowledge? Come on now. That’s all right. All right. Full live video episodes are up every week on my YouTube channel.

Add DGlockenflecken. We also have a Patreon, lots of cool perks, bonus episodes, where we act in medical shows and movies, hang out with other members of the Knock Knock High community. Like us, we’re there. We like being there. It’s fun. Early ad free episode access, interactive Q& A, live stream events, much more.

Patreon. com slash Glockenflecken. We’re going to Glockenflecken. com. Speaking of Patreon community perks. I don’t know why you have to say it like you’re choking on it. Well, that’s what it sounds like in the native German Oh, I’m fucking. New member shout out to Valerie A, Katelyn S, Kelly G, Angus C, Kaylee A Welcome everyone.

Kristin: Yeah. Hello. We’re so happy to have you Shout out to all the Jonathans, as always, a virtual head nod to you all. Patrick, Liz, CSE, Sharon S, Omar, Edward K, Steven G, Jonathan F, Marion W, Mr. Grendetti, Kaitlyn C, Brianna L, KL, Keith G, JJ H, Derek N, Mary [01:02:00] H, Zanna F, Ginny G, Ginny J. How do we say that? That one’s always hard for you.

Will: Ginny J. What’s hard? Ginny J. Mohamed K, Aviga Parker, Ryan, Mohamed L, David H, Jack K, Kaylee A, Medical Meg, Bubbly Salt, and Pink Macho! I appreciate that our producers, uh, kept Pink Macho at the very end. Blessed, yeah. Yes, that’s a good one to end on. I hope that Pink Macho never unsubscribes, because I feel like it’d be very obvious at this point.

It’s impossible. You’re not allowed to. You’re locked into a lifetime contract with us, Pink Macho. Uh, Patreon Roulette. Random shoutout to someone on the emergency medicine tier. Martha S, thank you for being a patron. Thank you. I left the gap in there for you to do a drumroll, but you didn’t. Oh. I didn’t get that memo.

Kristin: You usually do the drumroll. Thank you all for listening. We’re your hosts, Will and Kristen Flannery, TheGlockenFleck. And special thanks to our guests. Amy Archibald Varley and Sarah Fung. Our Executive Producers are Will Flannery, Christopher Flannery, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman and Shahnti Brooke. Editor in [01:03:00] engineer Jason Portizzo.

Will: Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi. To learn about our I love saying his name, Omer Ben Zvi. That was a new take. Yeah. To learn about our Knock Knock Highs program disclaimer that the policy You can go to galkinplugin. com or reach out to us at knockknockhigh at human dash I’m not sure it’s legal to do that.

Kristin: Whatever. It’s like our podcast. Uh, with any questions, just, you can, whatever, just reach us. The website. Go to the footer. Knock, knock, hi, it is a human content production. Goodbye.

Will: Hey, Kristen. Yeah. What do you think about my Dax co pilot? He’s very cute. Almost as cute as mine. Oh, he’s great. He just sits right there. I know. Can I tell you about Dax? Yeah, tell me. Oh man, it’s fantastic. The Dragon Ambient Experience from Nuance. They call it Dax co pilot. It’s cute. Yeah, [01:04:00] he helps with documentation burden, reducing burnout.

In fact, 80 percent of patients. Say their physician is more focused using the DAX copilot. That’s huge. That’s pretty good. We all want to be able to connect more with our patients. Right. And all the documentation we have to do now, it makes it almost impossible. Yeah. Easy to burn out. Absolutely. That’s your job.

Kristin: And 85 percent of patients say their physician is more personable and conversational. I like that. I want to, I need help being conversational sometimes, and DAX is one of those things that can help you get there. So, uh, to learn more about the Nuance Dragon Ambient Experience or DAX Copilot, visit nuance.

Will: com slash discover DAX. That’s N U A N C E dot com slash discover D A X.