Transcript

[00:00:00] Knock, knock,

knock, knock. Hi.

Hello everybody. Welcome to Knock-Knock. Hi, with the Glaucomfleckens.. I am Dr. Glaucomflecken. Austin as Will Flanary. I’m Lady Glaucomflecken and also known as Kristin Flanary. Well, yeah, I’ve got a fantastic, fantastic episode. Yes, we do. We are talking to the one and only Dr. Elisabeth Potter.

Yes. She’s a, you all know her role model a hero. You all know her. She, she’s gone. I think she’s an maybe. She might be. I think she has some superpowers. Yep. Uh, but she’s, you’ve seen her go viral all over social media for standing up to United Healthcare. Uh, she’s created video. She was pulled out of the operating room to have to deal with a, a, a patient, uh, denial.

She is, uh, recorded herself doing peer-to-peer reviews and just shining a, a, a light. On these harmful [00:01:00] practices at UnitedHealthcare and all the healthcare insurance companies do, to be honest. Uh, and uh, we got her on the podcast. Yes. So, uh, we, we had a, a wonderful chat, um, and, uh, just, uh, fired me up. I want to go out, I’m gonna go punch a health insurance person in the face.

Nope. Nope. That’s assault. Nope, can’t do that. Okay. Alright. Mm-hmm. I’m just gonna, uh, you can punch a pillow. That’s better. You can put the, a picture of the face on a pillow. Ah, there you go. That’s fine. I’ll put the, uh, the UnitedHealthcare logo on a, there you go. Pillow and just, just go to town. Yeah. Uh, maybe I’ll just record a skit.

How about that? I think that’d be better. That’s healthier? Yeah. Okay. I think so. Alright. But, uh, just this is a, a great combo, so let’s just ski to it. Shall we? Yes. Let’s not belabor this anymore. Here we go. Dr. Elisabeth Potter.

Hey Will. Hey. What’s up? I’ve been thinking the US healthcare system. It needs some improvement. Yeah, it’s, it’s, there’s room for improvement for sure. Yeah. It’s a confusing, scary place for everybody involved. Absolutely. Physicians, families, patients, everybody. Everybody. And I’ve [00:02:00] experienced it from both sides.

Right. I’m a physician. I’ve also been a patient, so I wanted to use my platform to give people practical education, really the only way that I know how by making jokes. So, Dr. Glaucomflecken really fun and super uplifting guide to American Healthcare is out and it’s a free resource that includes all my videos from the 30 Days of Healthcare series, alongside deeper explanations, also reliable facts.

Emphasis on reliable. Yes. All right. Uh, uh, figures, uh, numbers, insights into how each of us can fight for a more humane, better healthcare system. Also it has jokes. Did you mention the jokes? I did. I jokes. Okay. Yes, definitely jokes. Well, this guide is great for anyone looking to learn more about US healthcare, but especially if you are experiencing it from the clinician side for the first time.

That’s right. We really hope you’ll check it out. Get the free guide sent straight to your inbox by signing up [00:03:00] for our mailing list. Glaucomflecken.com/healthcare. Enjoy.

All right. We’re here with Dr. Elisabeth Potter, the one and only. Oh, thank you so much for being here. Oh, I’m just so glad to be here in a friendly room. Oh, you had just, there’s the subtext to that is you’ve been a lot of, in a lot of unfriendly rooms recently, which I can totally understand. Oh yeah.

There’s something about sitting here with you guys, it feels like. I, I know I don’t know you at all, but it feels like I’m with my family and we’re just about to laugh a lot and just, oh, yeah. I’m glad you feel that way because I was trying not to be like creepy. But also in your dms too, prior to this.

But like you, I feel like you just are like the medical Internet’s collective big sister right now. Like, you really give off [00:04:00] those vibes. Oh, you know. Oh yeah, for sure. Oh, we’re all gonna be okay because Dr. Potter is here. You know. Wait, is that, do I have to hold it together? Okay. Wait, vibe, like, I’m protecting you.

Okay. So I’m not allowed this. Okay. But can I show that it’s really, it’s actually really scary. Yeah, you can, I mean, we all know the truth. It’s just like, that’s the, the, like I love vibe that you have. I think that’s. I think that’s part of, of why your content’s resonating so much is because you’re very real with it.

Like you’re, yeah, you’re forthcoming with the challenges and, and, and the stress and, and it’s just, that’s very real. That’s what people are feeling right now with the healthcare system. Right? Yeah. And we’re gonna jump into the, um, I, I hear you have some kind of issue with one of these health insurance companies.

I dunno. Um, but first I just, I wanna apologize to you because [00:05:00] I don’t have a plastic surgery character. I am, I’m, I’m so, so sorry. I, you might be the first plastic surgeon I have ever met, actually. Outside of my own field, uh, the, I, I only, I only, uh, collaborate with ethical, uh, oculoplastic surgeons, by the way.

So, uh, but anyway, the ethical part leaves a lot of the plastic out. Do they say that? You can say whatever you want. That’s so funny. Yeah, I would, yeah. You need a plastic surgery character. I know. Maybe been in a bad one. Maybe a cosmetic and a reconstructive. It’s like, well, it seems like two various different worlds.

It is, and it’s why I’m so woefully unprepared to face the, you know, not woefully, un prepared, but it’s, I was thinking about it. I mean, like, no one prepared me to do reconstruction and have to fight for my patients. Like plastic surgery is all about, Hey, you’re prepared to do cosmetic surgery. [00:06:00] It’s not, it’s not this.

Yeah. Right. And so I, I wanna, well, first of all, okay, let’s just take a couple moments. Help me create this character. All right? So what’s obviously the, the health insurance, like the, the, the regulatory stuff is one thing, but, um, what are, uh, uh, what what helps me create my content is, um, knowing like what gets on your nerves.

Like, what are your gripes, what are your, what are the, uh, you know, the, the conflicts that you have with other doctors? Okay, wait, so air out. Air out all the dirty laundry. Here. Let’s go. You’re on a roll. Why stop? So, I mean, if we’re talking, I’m gonna put myself back in the, you know, your take call. It’s the, did you examine the patient?

You know, did you take an x-ray? You know, and this is all like hand and face stuff, right? It’s like, uh, have you seen the patient uhhuh? You know, do you have the finger? Yeah, you put it on, you put it in milk, right? Is that what you’re telling me? You thought that was a good idea because [00:07:00] I’m it, you know, plastic.

Oh, is that a thing? Yeah. Yeah. People do all kinds of stuff with, you know, reputated digits and you’re just like, oh boy, Uhuh, no. Or what it, you know, it’s, or someone calls and they say, you know, this person crushed their hand. It’s crushed. Um, can you, we told him he could probably replant it. And you’re like, uh, no.

Not if it’s corrected. ’cause I’m not a witch. Yeah. You can’t just like blow into it like a balloon and kind of reinflate it. It doesn’t work that way. No, I, so that’s just me getting back to the residency days. It’s all the normal. Like did you, yeah. But did you see, did you see the patient or do you have any information?

You just want, you just want me to see ’em? You, you know, it’s just that stuff. I mean, well, well the people are dying to know what do you do with your amputated digits? You snow them back on and you teach Southwestern just, just at home. You teach Southwestern where I trained. You take them to the operating room every time.

Yeah. Yeah. Like there’s no, there was like a [00:08:00] intense sense of shame if you got to Thursday conference and. There was any replant that you had not given them the benefit of a trip to the operating room just to try, right? Yeah. There’s no, yeah, I mean, it’s their hand. So we do the same thing with the eyeball.

Actually, that’s different. I mean, that’s why way more the eyeball’s way more important. I’ve got 10 digits, so. That’s true. That’s true. All right. Well, let’s, we, we gotta just, we gotta jump in ’cause got a lot of stuff to talk about. Um, first of all, just how are you doing? I I you just, just in general, like, are you, you seem happy, but underneath the surface, uh, I’m sure it’s one of these, I laugh so I don’t cry.

I can almost sense a, a a, a extreme level of despair. Right. Desperation. Yeah. Right. I’m not sure what the layers of the skin, but there’s something, there’s some layer in there that’s like, uh, oh my God, what is happening in my life right now? We’ve, we, we can say this because we [00:09:00] recognize it from experience.

I love it. You’re at the point where it’s like so absurd. Yeah. So difficult to deal with that. It’s become absurd and that’s, everything is hilarious now because it’s just so absurd. I mean, how bad could you be doing, you painted the room behind you, so it’s, it’s like you, maybe it’s therapeutically my print anise.

I mean, she’s amazing and Anna shout out to Annaly. She’s just got color palettes to die for. So, no. Really though. How, how are you? Give us a general sense. The laughing thing is, I’m actually, I’m really glad to be here with you guys, and I think humor helps me. And I grew up in a storytelling family in the south, and so, you know, I don’t, keeping up a facade is like exhausting.

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s been wacky. Like, it’s been ridiculous. And I can’t believe, I mean, I’m 49 years old and I trained so hard to do all this work, and I can’t believe that this is the thing that’s, that’s trying to take me out. [00:10:00] It’s insurance. I’m like, for real? I got through residency and so yeah, I’m, I have my moments when I’m tired.

Um, but I’m also, I guess I am, I, I don’t know. I’m just, I’m happy to be, I’m happy to be taking care of people, whatever that means. And I don’t always get to choose what it means. And right now it seems like I’m supposed to take care of what’s going on in insurance. Because I, I could, there was no way for me to keep telling the truth and not get here, I guess.

So I’m not exactly sure why I’m here or like what universe this is, but, um, I think I might have some superpowers and Yeah. That I’ve yet to be revealed, you know what I’m saying? Like, I’m just like, okay, let’s do this. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I’m not making a lot of sense, but I’m, I’m good. It’s okay. It, I’m good.

I think what, when I saw your first video that set all this off, I, I [00:11:00] saw that and I was like, oh, this is different. This is, no one’s done this, no one has talked about this in this way. In such a direct way. Yeah. In such, yeah. Uh, and really like recounting like the, the, the actual conversations in that way.

And, uh, it, it just, the, the like visceral reaction I had like, oh my God, I cannot believe. This is, this is one, this is real. And that, and that she’s saying these things like, this is, this is amazing. Uh, and it is, I think is exactly what we all needed in that moment. Like, I can make a thousand like silly comedy skits.

Right? And like, that’s, that’s gonna be great for like some people. But I think you, you, you tapped into something that’s so real that people could not ignore it. And universal, like everyone, patients, doctors, everybody in this country is dealing with it. Yeah. But I also, I think it, for [00:12:00] me, the comedy that helps me tell the truth.

So I, I appreciate what you do. I do. And, but I, I hear what you’re saying. And I remember the day that I had that conversation. A, after recording it, I came home and I sat outside on like a little wall in my backyard and I told my husband, I was like, this thing just happened. I’m just like, I was shaking my head, like, my mind is blown.

And I told him and he was like, what? And we just, that was the feeling. It, we just, I think all of us have been, we’ve been experiencing these absurdities in medicine for a while now. Mm-hmm. And then that moment I was able to share one example that resonated pretty deeply. But, um, and just to give the audience a, in case you just not have been under a rock, are not aware of, of what’s been happening.

It, uh, it started [00:13:00] off with you receiving, you had a patient in the operating room, uh, and planning on doing a surgery that was approved in the middle of the surgery. Right. The inpatient hospitalization was approved. Yep. And you got a call directly to the operating room. Yes. Uh, that, and you were told it was the insurance?

It was UnitedHealthcare. Yeah. I was, um, in the operating room, a message came in saying that UnitedHealthcare wanted to talk to me right now. And, um, it had, it had gone through a couple of, of gates to get to me, you know? Yeah. Someone answered the phone at the or front desk. Um, what that nurse says that they said, you may not speak to Dr.

Potter right now. She scrubbed in and that nurse says that they responded, I would like you to get her, you know, like, I need to talk to her. Mm. And then the nursing manager talked and she was like, something must be up. We’ve never gotten a call like this clearly an insurance emergency. An in, I mean, it was mission critical, mission [00:14:00] critical that we had that authorization nailed down for the appropriate number of seconds.

Um, yeah. So it was just ridiculous and absurd. And, and they only wanted these mundane details and that was almost even worse. It was like, you’re entitled to my time. And the man wasn’t rude. He, it was just so completely absurd that, that as a surgeon insurance can get into the operating room and interrupt me mid case.

Um, yeah. And the background was that insurance has been doing this for a long time, right? I’ve been advocating for a long time. And, um, I’ve been fighting against, uh, insurance changes that have led to decreased reimbursements for breast reconstruction. So this, this wasn’t like, you know, a clean slate.

Yeah. When this happened, there was a backstory of women’s health and breast reconstruction and insurance trying to take away coverage. So, um, yeah. And then I recorded that video, [00:15:00] it went viral, and then United, you know, got angry with me for recording it. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, so what, what I, I’m curious, like what had you, had you made content before that point?

Yeah, I did. But you never had anything go viral. I made content for my patients and I’m, you know, informational stuff and for the breast cancer community so that they could see the kind of things that we were doing. And, um, yeah, I, I did and I, and I really enjoyed doing it. Yeah. But that, I’d never done something like that before.

Um, I’d made content to, we fought this fight to preserve access to breast reconstruction a couple years ago, and that’s when I really went online and connected with, um, patients online. But this was not what I expected and I was not prepared for. Yeah. I’m sure. Like, yeah. What, what was going through your mind when you decided to make the video?

Was it just kind of that feeling of like, [00:16:00] what just happened? Exasperation, like, what the hell, what the hell do I do with this? I’m sure you didn’t think it would be all this, so what? I didn’t, I didn’t, but I had learned at some point that like, just be honest. I mean, yeah, of course I’m in kindergarten, but I mean, in on the internet, like with patience, like what resonated with patience was just being honest.

And I just felt like I could be honest about this. And I wasn’t even sure that it made sense when I recorded it because I was, I was just so dumbfounded. Yeah. Um, and I posted it pretty quickly after I recorded it. It wasn’t very long. Um, so I, I didn’t know it was gonna happen and, um, I’m glad it did though.

I’m glad it did, because I feel like, you know, there’s a conversation happening, um, something bigger than me is happening and, and that’s good. And then, so you get the letter, the cease and desist, uh, from the law [00:17:00] firm, law firm, you know, representing UnitedHealthcare. Did you at any point consider sending your own cease and desist to them?

To maybe stop doing like the, the prior author you’re doing author, the peer-to-peer reviews. Like, has that, has anybody ever done that? Has that worked? Oh my god. You would do that? I, I, oh, no, I think that’s your next skit. Yeah. I think that’s the plastic surgeon skit. Yeah. I think you might be right, actually.

I think so. What I’m wondering about though is like, how much do you think that them sending you that letter? It just, it just, just exploded this thing? Yeah. They shot themselves in the foot. I 10%. It was, it was a little bit viral. Like it was like, you know, like a small outbreak. Small outbreak off. Right.

And became like a pandemic when they, because they, because they went there and I think everybody saw them go there. Yeah. And I, again, sitting in my backyard when, when I decided to post the letter that they sent [00:18:00] to me, that was after discussion with, um, a great legal team. Who, who, who worked on this for me, pro bono.

Um, and they looked at everything and they checked all the facts and they said, you’re rock solid and you know, yeah, let’s, let’s do this. And um, so I posted it and I just remember thinking, how is this gonna land? Do you know what I mean? Because it already had this viral experience. And I was like, wait a minute, does lightning strike twice?

Like, am I gonna cut? Did you just ask him if he knew what it was like to wonder how something speaking out against United Healthcare was going to land with United Healthcare Man? But yeah, I mean, no. I mean, it, I posted it and then, and then at the world or whoever was listening, got to see how, how United talks to a doctor who’s taking care of women with breast cancer.

Through insurance and network. Like I’m, I’m such a good actor. I’ve never done [00:19:00] anything shady. Like I don’t do cash pay. I don’t like, I’m just in network working for beans, trying to do the good thing and not even, not even a parking ticket on your, I mean, I mean, have I gotten a parking ticket? I mean, yeah.

Okay. So there’s some things, Austin, Texas probably. Yeah, probably. Yeah, yeah, probably for sure. And, but you know what I mean, like, I’m not like doing the Yeah. The yeah. Distasteful things that insurance companies like to say that doctors do, right? Like, no, I’m just, you know, I’ll do a free flap for $2,000.

Okay, sure. You know? Yeah. So you put the letter, or Yeah. You, you just put that letter out. Did, which by the way is cease and desist from like what, just telling the truth, I guess. Right? Like that’s all you did. Yeah. Yeah. They wanted me to apologize and take it down. And I, I, I think we’re, how dare you tell people what we’re doing?

I know, right? So first of all, I, I get, I get asked a lot. Like, have you, have you, uh, ever received any legal rep [00:20:00] repercussions for like, what I post and lately, the last few times I’ve spoken in public, I, I get asked about you and like, do you know about Elisabeth Potter? I’m like, oh yeah, I know about Elisabeth Potter.

And so like, you know, doing the comedy thing, I think I, I maybe they just don’t take me as seriously. Well, legally probably you have some protection. There’s, there’s like satire, freedom of speech stuff that comes into play with the stuff I do, but, and this is what I tell people I was like, is like, there’s, there’s a certain level of of courage that comes with what you are doing.

Yeah. That, that I’m not, I’m not reckoning with, I’m not dealing with because you are literally putting yourself, your career out there. And, um, that is something that we should all be commending you for doing, uh, because that is a, that’s just like a next level of advocacy right there. Yeah. Like when you put yourself out there and, [00:21:00] and risking what you’re risking.

Um, and, uh, and so like that’s, yeah. And I think that’s why the, the big sister vibe comes in too. It’s like you are representing all doctors. You’re, and not just representing them, but you are putting yourself on the line for all doctors, like everyone is Yeah. Dealing with this. Right. And so, and then of course for the patients as well, but like.

I think that people recognize, people in the, in the healthcare community recognize the sacrifice that you’re making on everyone else’s behalf. And I think that is a large part of why there’s been such a movement to support you, you know, in, in whatever way that people can. Because, because everyone, you are sort of the healthcare, every woman, right?

Like, everyone sees what you see, and you were the only one that was brave enough to say it so publicly, and then now you’re, you’re being punished [00:22:00] for it. So I think everyone just feels this need to rally behind you and like help. However, however we can, this part, this episode, we’re just gonna heap praise upon you, you the whole time, like the whole episode.

Hope that’s okay with you. Y’all are amazing. And I, I mean to, you know, be serious. I’ll stop giggling and I settle in here. But like, I, um, yeah, I think sometimes you’re just presented with a situation that you really don’t have an option. To, yeah. You know, it was never an option to not to not do the right thing.

Right. That’s all you could do, right? Yeah. That’s all you felt like you could do. I mean, and it’s kind of funny ’cause I mean, you know, there’s the version of me that’s looking down going, this is gonna hurt. And I’m like, yeah, I know. You know, but like, do it anyway. You just do it anyway. And so, um, it’s, it does help that UnitedHealthcare decided to do the exact wrong thing, so it does.

Right. It’s like, that was just not the best move. And at any time they could have reached out and said, [00:23:00] let’s talk about this and how can we work together? And, um, you know, I’m super collaborative and want good things for patients, but that’s just not the t they took, they they have an, they have an insight issue, Elisabeth.

They have, they’re, they feel like they are liked more than they are. Hmm. Which is baffling. Right. And so I think with, with things like this, like they’re, they feel like they’re gonna. They’re gonna get some sympathy. Uh, you saw it certainly with the shooting, right? Like you, I think United Healthcare, his family deserved sympathy a thousand hundred percent.

United Healthcare did not. Well, and they, I think they get, and the stuff like this, they get caught with their pants down a bit because, because they think, oh, well people are, are going to, uh, you know, be, you know, sympathize with us as UnitedHealthcare, but it’s, it’s not the case. And so when they go after individuals as this mega corporation, like, how’d you think [00:24:00] that was gonna go?

You know, you know, I think you’re right. I was just talking with, um, someone in media who said that they had had a, a conversation with someone in an insurance company. I’ll just leave it there. Um, and that, that person in the insurance company was talking about how, how good. What a good actor that insurance company was.

What, what good things they did. And the example they gave was that this one time that the prior auth actually helped prevent a patient from not having the wrong limb operated on. Because Yeah. And I was like, yeah, no it didn’t. And it’s super funny. Yeah, no it didn’t. ’cause there’s a timeout and there’s consent.

Yeah. And there’s all this stuff. So maybe somebody wrote something down wrong on a piece of paper, but they actually said to this, per like, to a reporter, we’re such a good insurance company, we’ve like prevented the wrong leg from coming off. So to your point, I just think it’s, they’re tone deaf. They’re, they are not saving anyone.

And, and I [00:25:00] surely they must know at least at the top that that’s the case. Right? Like they are not in the helping patients’ business, they are in the make as much, much money as possible business. Right, right. Yeah. And, and so I guess, so we’re at the point where, where you post the letter. And then what, what happened there in terms of, did, did you get a reaction from United?

Like what did that escalate thing or did that, that, did that actually like cool their jets a little bit there? That started to back off from you? So, good question, and what I didn’t post was the letter that we sent back to United. Okay. Um, so we sent a letter back to United that really was, um, really direct saying that their, um, attempt to, uh, believe me had not worked and that I, um, was informed about my right to free speech and that the truth is an absolute defense to [00:26:00] libel and that should they continue to pursue me in this matter, that they would be, um, that I would, I would respond to them with a suit of my own.

And, um, they would be responsible for my legal fees. And that was the genius of my legal team who did all the work to, and looked at the case law. There’s something called an antis SLAPP statute. Um, so, so someone like me actually is protected if you’re telling the truth. I’m protected from, um, from what they were trying to do to me.

Now they have, they hurt me in other ways. Yes. Yeah. Which, yeah, they have, and we’ll get, we’ll get to that for sure. I’m, but so that was, so, I, I felt, I mean, I didn’t, it’s sort of like having a good doctor. You don’t know. You don’t really want one, but when you need one, you’re like so glad. They’re great.

Yeah. I’ve never, I didn’t have a legal team, but when these guys showed up and, and really went to bat for me, um, [00:27:00] I felt, I felt like, okay, if I can take the heat, they’re gonna keep me safe. So we’re good. We’re gonna do this. Yeah. And, and, but then the thing is, it seems like, I mean, did you, did you get heat from anywhere else besides just from this mega corporation that’s like one of the top five corporations in, in the world?

Uh, I would say yes. And I would say that some of it was like radiant heat where you don’t see the, the source necessarily, but you feel the burn. So like going to the hospital, I work for a really big hospital. I work at a very big hospital chain, um, corporation. And, um, shortly after the, the letter, you know, corporate attorneys descended, like, I think they actually landed a helicopter on the roof and then like repelled down into the operating room in their suits because they were like, they were like swat teaming everything.

And nurses were coming up to me saying they’re, they’re interviewing us. They’re saying they’re asking us all these [00:28:00] things about you. And all anyone is saying is like, you’re awesome. Like, there was someone who passed me a note in the hallway like, Hey, you’re take this note. You know what I mean? Like, they want me to know like, hey.

This company, this hospital, not, not United, the hospital, right. Has sent, like, has sent all these goons. Yeah. Just what’s up with you? So they’re, they’re, they’re worried. They’re worried that this, this was gonna hurt their bottom line, basically. I dunno what they thought they installed. Cameras in the operating rooms were at work.

No way. Yes, they did. Yes, they did the, the week after. And it was in four ORs and there’s 20 something ORs. And I was like, you guys are kidding me. How are you installing cameras in the o these operating rooms? And I, I asked multiple people and I’ve never gotten an answer. And so all we do now is when I go into the room, we turn ’em around and my question to them was, would you have the patient’s consent?

Where does this data go? That’s what I was just wondering. I want, so I want so many, I wanna know so many things about this. And it was just like, crickets. Still. Yeah. Still, still. Well that’s your answer. Wow. Okay. Let’s take, let’s take [00:29:00] a quick break. We’ll come right back.

Hey Kristin. Hmm. I know I like to talk to you about the little dex mites. Mm-hmm. And little tiny guys. Mm-hmm. Thought we could give that a break and just talk about the, the eyelid disease that they cause when there’s an overgrowth of dex I like that idea. No mite talk. So dedex blepharitis it, it gets missed, it gets misdiagnosed, uh, because a lot of the symptoms overlap with other eye conditions.

Hmm. Okay. So what are the top symptoms that people should be looking out for? Itching, swelling, irritation of the eyelid margin redness. Hmm. Yeah. That kind of sounds like it could be allergies or something else. Exactly. It could be a several different things, but the key is if your doctor spots little crusties, that’s, they’re called collarettes, but you know, they like little crusty technical term.

Exactly. Uh, then, um, uh, that’s deem aex blepharitis. You just know it. Hmm. I like that there is a clear sign to know. Yep. And once you’re diagnosed as a prescription [00:30:00] eye drop treatment. Available for Dedex Blepharitis. Whew. That is good to know. To learn about the common symptoms of Dedex blepharitis and more visit mites love lids.com.

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Alright, so, uh, we’re back with Dr. Elisabeth Potter and, um, uh, how many interviews, by the way, is it, is this like number like 560 interview that you’ve done about this whole thing? Uh, this is the, this is the most fun. Oh, good, good. Can we just. Maybe the, maybe the first one with an ophthalmologist is that Yeah.

In fact, it’s, yeah. Okay. Good. At least, at least we can establish that. Um, all right, so, uh, th this is, it’s interesting to hear you say that you’re, it’s almost like you’re, the, the collateral damage from this thing has, has kind of, you know, bled into other areas [00:32:00] of your professional life. Um, did, was there, you mentioned the cameras in the operating room.

Was there pressure on you to do anything in particular? And don’t answer, obviously don’t answer anything that you’re, you’re, you might get Oh, yeah. You know, in trouble for, but did you feel like anybody was like pressuring you to, I don’t know, make a certain statement? Or, or was it, were you basically kinda left to your, you and your legal team’s, devices to kind of handle this how you wanted to I mean, I got a few messages.

Um, most of the messages that I got were very supportive. There were a few that were not from, you know, folks in societies and, you know, they don’t want the attention. Um, right. But for the most part, I think people, people who are around me know me and they know that I’m just not gonna back down. Like once I’ve, once [00:33:00] I’ve, you know, dug in a little bit for better or worse, um, if I’m always gonna try to do the right thing, even if it hurts, I’m not, I’m, that really is the truth about me.

Am I just, I’ve always been that way. My mom was like, if I, if United had just asked me, I would’ve told him, you know? Right. Like, I, so did I feel pressure? Yes. Yeah. Um, when I, honestly, the, the harder part I think has been. Um, not to fast forward a little bit, but just the, the, the pressure on the practice that’s resulted in the coming, the, the months that that followed.

When I, when I decided to write, when I decided to post the letter or to fight back, I had been in the process of opening a surgery center and I, and I was in the process of trying to contract with United, who is like a, be a myth in healthcare and takes care of, you know, almost the majority of patients, um, that I see.[00:34:00] 

And so I, I, I, in the back of my mind, I thought they could screw me over, but then I thought, these are separate and, and I’m such a good doctor and I take such good care of their patients and I’ve been doing this for so long and I’m gonna save them money and do all these good things with the surgery center for women with breast cancer.

Like, they’re not gonna mix these things up. Right. Um, and it’s been, I think it’s been the pressure, the pressure that I have felt has been. To not do things that hurt the practice. Do you know what I mean? Not to not speak up, but to Elisabeth, do you see what’s happening? You’re gonna lose your surgery center?

Like, like those things or, or people that I owe money to, like, you know, you have like, just I have to pay them. And they’re, they’re, it’s, it’s just, that’s been the hardest part. Or even other surgeons, right? Like, I think at first, at first, like the first day I, when I [00:35:00] posted the initial viral video, you know, I got a pat on the back and thanks so much for doing that.

And there was a lot of that. But when I then was really in a, in a bad spot financially with the practice and, you know, I was, I sold things to make payroll, um, my husband cast his 401k. Yeah, I saw you talk about that. Yeah. Just those things. It was funny because I’m, I’m, I’m gonna do what’s needed. Like, I’m gonna do what’s needed to take care of my people, period.

And I’m never gonna be ashamed of that. I’m not, and that’s an honorable thing to do. And I, I didn’t grow up in a rich family or coming from money, like people who just like farmed and worked and did, did the thing. And if it’s gonna keep my family fed or my people employed, I’m not gonna be too proud to do it.

But I did get the feeling when I went to work that doctors don’t do that. Right. I got that [00:36:00] feeling. Some, some expressed directly to me and some is just the energy that I can feel that, that wasn’t showing weaknesses in a good move for a surgeon. And I guess like you shouldn’t be asking for money or donations.

Correct. Like, but I started to GoFundMe, right? It’s like, um. When I am considered one of the best micros surgeons in the country, and I’m great at what I do, and I’m so fast and I have such great outcomes and people are applauding me, lots of people wanna be around me when I’m saying that. Um, I had to sell personal items to make payroll and I’m worried that I’m gonna lose my practice.

A lot of those people don’t wanna be around me, those same people. So, but honestly, I was never in it for that. I was never in it for like the club. Well, sure, but it’s But it’s a support system that you’re Yeah. That you feel like you were going to have. Yeah. And the right [00:37:00] people are there. I’m not saying that.

I’m not saying I don’t have great people there. I’m just saying I see who’s not right. Mm-hmm. And that has been painful. I feel like those people are operating under faulty assumptions, right? Like, they’re wrong, like before. I say this all the time. I said this to him in med school when it was like I watched how they kind of train the humanity out of people so that they can just like squeeze more out of them.

And I would always say before, you are a med student or before you are a doctor, before you are a surgeon, you are a human. And we are all human. And so throw away the like, ugh. Surgeons can’t show weakness because surgeons are humans. So guess what? They have all the same human weaknesses that everyone else does, and there’s no good that comes, in my [00:38:00] opinion, from putting people on a pedestal like that when it requires denying their humanity.

Like that’s just a fantasy. I love that you said that. I also think this whole time I’ve leaned into telling the truth and I don’t know exactly. What the grand message is gonna be like. This isn’t the story I intended to tell with my life. Yeah. Um, someone else is writing this story, I think, and I’m just trying to be in my purpose in it.

And the only way I can be is by telling the truth and honestly telling the truth about what it’s like to be someone with my training and my skillset in healthcare in America. Saying that I almost lost my home is part of the truth that I think Americans need to hear. And it’s part of the tragedy and the cruelty of insurance and healthcare.

And so if I hold that back, I don’t think I’m the only one. I [00:39:00] don’t think I’m the only one. No, there’s no way. I think they’re, yeah. You know what I mean? So it’s painful and it’s, it does it feel embarrassing sometimes for someone who’s as proud of what I do? Like, um. There are moments when it felt that way, and I just had to stand up straighter and go, let me show you, let me show you, let me model free what it’s like to be humble and truthful.

Mm-hmm. And to walk through this very difficult time. Do you know what I mean? And I’m still figuring that out every day. But if I, if I don’t tell the truth, like I don’t think I’m doing any of us a service. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what else, like, I’m sorry, this is just gonna continue to be the pep talk, but like the worse it gets, the more on the right track you are, I feel like, because what that means is that they are scared of you.

This got gigantic corporation is scared of you. [00:40:00] I, yeah. I, I also think there’s, there’s folks, I, I love doctors. I do. But there’s, there are folks in medicine who are, you know, company people. And who are really comfortable, um, living under the protection of an industry that isn’t taking care of the rest of us.

And those are the ones who have questioned me. Right? Yeah. I, I can’t believe I’m saying this, but have you taken solace in the comments on social media? And honestly, I love it, isn’t it? I have actually, I can’t think of as another person, myself included, that like everybody is supportive of what you’re doing.

Yeah. So much love. And so normally I don’t say like, tell advise people to read too many of the comments, but in your case, but for you, I would say, read all the comments. I go search your name on every single social media platform because everybody only has wonderful things to say. [00:41:00] I love that. And I, you know, if they’re bots, I’m down.

Yeah. Making me feel better. You know what I mean? Those Russian bots are nice sometimes, right? They’re, I’m receiving as much as I’m giving and that is the absolute truth. And, um, I don’t, and that’s when I feel like I’m in this position. I, I didn’t earn this. I’m not a good enough person to have phrase like that heaped on me.

I’m just a normal person in an extraordinary circumstance. Right? And, um, but man, I appreciate the encouragement. And, and I’ll tell you that on really hard days, like when I sit down and I see comments that say, Hey, Dr. Potter, I’m rooting for you, man, I get choked up. Or I feel like that swell of like, I got this, you know?

Right. There are other people doing things that are harder than this. And I hear you on the, I’m just a normal person. In extraordinary circumstances, I felt the same way. Like [00:42:00] after I had to do CPR on him, that med Twitter was like, oh, you’re such a hero. And I could not accept that because I just felt like it, it almost like rubbed me the wrong way because I felt like not, no, I’m not.

I’m just, I did what anyone would do. Like I just. Did what you’re supposed to do. Right. And, and this is not at all on the same level. ’cause I felt like, like someone’s, someone’s life was at stake in, in this one and, and whatnot. But like you just said that you’re a normal person, extraordinary circumstances, but not every normal person would choose the actions that you’ve chosen.

Yeah, that’s true. So you are, don’t discount yourself entirely. I take your point. I and I, I feel that, ’cause I’ve been there too. And also, but like, you couldn’t help it. You couldn’t help yourself. Exactly. So I get that. I get that. And so there’s no, like, it’s not like I thought I [00:43:00] really, you know, maybe I won’t because I couldn’t have gone to sleep at night and respected myself.

Yeah. Right. Do you know what I’m saying? Right. Like you couldn’t have not because like Right, because we had, we had a mortgage to pay. Yeah, that’s right. Two kids. He’s not going anywhere. Give it back here, sir. See, if I had thought about the mortgage, I might’ve stopped. That’s another Oh, painful. Well, I, I can we, I wanna talk about the retaliation aspect of this.

Yeah. Because, um, there was, there was no reason why UnitedHealthcare would not include your surgery center in their network. Yeah. Right. You met all the requirements, you did everything right, crossed your T’s, dotted your i’s, and so at, at what point did you, I mean, do you have like confirmation, like, yes, we’re doing this because of what you’ve said about us?

Or is it, is it just like, I mean, how could you not come to that conclusion kind of thing? I, I can’t [00:44:00] help but see it as anything other than retaliation. Um, and I mean, I think there’s a couple of, of, of things that I would share for those who want insight into that. In the state of Texas, an insurance company has to apply for a waiver if they don’t have a network that has enough surgery centers.

And so in my zip code, United applied for a waiver because they didn’t have enough surgery centers like mine. Okay, well there you go. Yeah. So, so they needed one just like me, and they were saying all these things about, um, and their business model in other ways, like they wanted things like that. Um, and, and I, the case is like I can save 40% for them and I do 500 cases a year.

And, you know, the business model, the business case is so, so clear. Um, if nothing else is gonna speak to them, at least money should speak to them. Right. And, and so it should, right. And then also, if you’re someone who’s paying premiums to United, [00:45:00] I want, I want you, I want the public to know that they have, they had the opportunity for me to save the money and.

And provide better care. And I mean, breast cancer is the single largest expenditure for women in the 40 to 60 something age range for employers. Right. It’s like a huge expenditure. So we could make an a real impact and be a case study for doing something in a different way. And they chose not to. Why would they choose not to?

Yeah, it’s, it’s because of, it’s me. That’s the only explanation left. Yeah. And there’s a, there’s a few, there may be an email or two out there that insinuates that such maybe, yeah. Or maybe not an email. I would say. Um, I heard of a conversation where they mentioned it to a reporter. Okay. So, um, that I was actively contracting with them and, [00:46:00] you know, et cetera.

So where are you at now? I’m just pivoting. I mean, I’m like, listen, I’m, you know, I laugh when I talk about, I’m being really honest about being vulnerable and all that, and that’s part of my strength, I think. But like, I am one tough son of a bitch, and so like, I’m not going down on this. Yeah, I get that.

Yeah. Like, I’m not going down on this and so like, this is, uh, I’m gonna, I’m gonna see this through and demonstrate a different way to do it. And, um, so yeah, I’m just every day waking up, giving myself a pep talk, going and taking great care of patients, going out and getting contracts with other insurance companies for my surgery center.

I, you know, like paying off my, paying off my debts that I can, I mean, good lord, people showed up. Yeah. $500,000 in a week in a GoFundMe and the average donation was $70. That’s amazing. Yeah. [00:47:00] $50. That’s just, that are my people. That’s amazing. That’s like my fam, like my aunt sent me. Not a wealthy woman. She wrote me a check for what she could write.

Like Yeah. People sending, it’s, it’s just regular people. Yeah, regular people. And of course there were a couple of other, not regular people who did too, but Right. Even with them, the average donation, 70 bucks, I’m like, I work for you now. Yeah, right. Yeah. Let’s, let’s see them. If and if that is true, if I’m representing for Americans, I will not be crushed.

So, you know, bring it, by the way, open enrollment’s coming up. I, so I said that just, just yesterday. I’m like, I’m about to unleash that. I mean, vote with your feet, people. Yep. Absolutely. Vote with your feet. I’m not, I’m not saying any other health insurance company is like better on a lot of things than United Healthcare, but I mean, there’s gotta be some consequences for probably not many that are worse [00:48:00] for, for breaking, you know.

Yeah, if I was literal laws, I think literal, actual laws or like, you know, like threatening, like human beings. Um, no, I think that there’s something to be said for that. You know, employers take a look around, have another option. Yeah. You know, and, and honestly, if I was one of the other insurance companies right now, I would be saying, this is my chance.

This is my chance to be a good guy. Like, you don’t get this opportunity very often. Yeah, right. Serious Aetna, like, let’s, let’s be the good guys. Yeah. Like, yeah, let’s really, let’s, you know, so I mean, there’s opportunities and whenever Yeah. Where there’s pain, there’s, there’s opportunity. So yeah. So your surgery center for now is gonna survive for now.

Oh my gosh, yes. So I’ve got, I mean, I’m not gonna talk about the burn rate, like, but yes, sure. We, we have, I have some breathing room. Okay, good. And, and, and I’m still making the case to other insurance companies and man, maybe, you know, United, come [00:49:00] on. It’s been a bad year for you guys. I would say a PR boon would be, you know, come on, let me network.

Right. So yeah. Not even like a pr boon just coming back to like, like zero almost baseline. Not quite well almost. Right? But that’s better than, better than what it is now. And, uh, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s our, we’ve had our own issues. You, I’m in private practice, uh, and we own surgery centers and it’s, uh, um, UnitedHealthcare, there’s something about that corporation.

Like if people wonder in my content, like, why, you know, don’t forget about Aetna. Don’t forget about, uh, blue Cross and. At first, you know, when I started talking about health insurance companies, I was, I did make some videos, like, you know, where those other companies were, the, the, where I was pointing my, my ire.

But then I realized, man, I don’t know, United Healthcare, it just really is like a step above in terms of their decision [00:50:00] making, their unethical policies and, and just, I feel like every couple months there’s a news article coming out, uh, talking about another thing that they’re doing, whether it’s like nursing homes and, uh, it just, so, so anyway, that’s why, because I do feel like there are levels to this.

There are, and I, I don’t, I don’t think any health insurance company really is as, as ethical in what they do, but, um, but there, there are levels. Absolutely. You know, and being able to recognize that like is important. And I think, yeah. Sometimes, I mean, even if we’re just all thinking about how do we coach ’em up, how do we coach these insurance companies up and get ’em to behave?

Right. Like, you’ve gotta point out something good. Right. Right. Yeah. I guess that’s true. Or, or at least like point at the one that you don’t wanna be like, don’t act like him. Yeah. You know? Right. Pick your nose. Won’t do that. You like Jerry? Uh, can I, can we, can we also, can we talk about the oculoplastics doctor conversation?

Oh my God. [00:51:00] That was, that’s go Oh man. Conversation. I was on point that day. I was ready to roll. You’re, you’re, you’re, I was just looking. Your face. You have to fill people in. Okay. Alright. So let’s, let’s give context for the, well you, you give us context. What was this conversation? A patient, uh, needs to have a treatment for lymphedema.

They’re gonna have mastectomy and I wanna do this really, really elegant surgery called la Viviana’s bypass for them. And, uh, United denies it. And so I ask for a peer-to-peer call and um, yeah. On the phone and what ensued was an embarrassment of the en, of the, the peer to the, the, of the term peer. First of all, first of all, what ensued was an actual real life Dr.

Glaucomflecken skit. That’s what ensued Well, I actually turned a part of it into it, actual skit. But, uh, uh, did, um, uh, first of all, is this, is this procedure, like, is it typically covered like by. [00:52:00] Other payers. It had it covered before. Yeah. Had it covered before and, you know. Yeah. I looked into all the, there are entire companies that will cover this procedure, so it’s Right.

You know, it’s not, they say they, United says it’s experimental. I’ve been doing it for 13 years. At what point does it stop being experimental? I mean, we can do, when you have good success with it. I’m just saying it’s not, I mean, in the sense that anything I do is an experiment today. Like it’s, yeah, it’s an experiment.

And certainly so, so you, so you, they, they, they accept your, your, your dual, your offer. You’re, you’re starting, like, you’re slapping in with a, with a white glove and be like, I challenge you to a dual. Like they, they accept and, and, uh, to the, to the peer. To peer and, and you expect, you know, any physician like we would expect, what does a, what does that, what does that mean?

Yeah. Peer to peer. We expected someone with our level of experience and education and training in your field. But that’s not who showed up on the call. No. And actually, and they, I mean, they [00:53:00] chose when to have the call. It’s not like I called up and said, could you get your nearest plastic surgeon? I mean, they knew what it was about.

They had time. They had time. They assembled their A team and their A team was, you know, an Yeah, an ocular plastic, yeah. Cosmetic surgeon and an ocular plastics surgeon, neither of whom treated people with breast cancer or had ever performed even one of these procedures or had any information to describe the procedure.

It was like, it was embarrassing. It wa was, it was like, you know what? It was, it was like when you’re in the operating room and you know, you’re getting like the med students getting pimped and you just want it to stop because we’re, it’s just sad. Stop beating, stop beating the med students because, but I just couldn’t stop.

I couldn’t stop because I’m like, I just, let’s just, let’s take this all the way here. You have no idea what I’m talking about. I loved it. Take him to task like quiz. Um, yeah. Pimp ’em in the, on all the anatomy and whatever it is. And you know, just to give people a context, [00:54:00] in oculoplastics specialist is someone who did eyeball residency, three, three years of eyeball residency, followed by one to two years of facial plastics.

At no point they don’t think there’s any breasts on the face. Do we venture anywhere? You and I know that anywhere near breast tissue. I just loved it. And I also, it was what was classic was, you know, like if you’re gonna go play basketball and someone, and someone joins you and they’re like, let’s play some sports ball.

Like just the terminology they’re using, you know that they don’t belong here. And the person on the line was like, I’m subspecialty plastics. And I was like, uh, I’m gonna check on that because. Literally no plastic surgeon ever said that. Yeah. Subspecialty plastics. That’s great. Subspecialty plastics. I was like, no, plastic surgeons are like, I’m a badass plastic surgeon.

And they were like, I’m, I’m like, no. Here we go. Who are you? Planet are you from? Yeah. People you need to go, go to your, uh, I’m sure it’s probably on [00:55:00] all your platforms, but, uh, you know, TikTok, uh, I think is where I saw it, but just watching your facial expressions. That’s what I was focused on. I was like, I know exactly like how she’s feeling and, and, and answering these questions and doing all this stuff.

Um, I was just, and, and the thing is like, that’s another one of those, like a type of content that, that we need. And I’ve seen a couple other people do that same thing. I love it. And, and it’s, it’s fantastic to, to sit there and the way you’re doing it is great. It’s just you, yeah. You’re not hearing, you’re not recording them, you’re not hearing the other voice, but just the way you held the conversation.

To, to, to like, you’re like letting us in on the conversation. We don’t need to hear what this other person’s saying, right. To know exactly how ludicrous this situation is. And that is genius. It’s, and this is why it went viral, and so please do more of that. And any physician [00:56:00] who’s listening, like, do, do that.

We need to like, have one of those, um, ice bucket challenges, you know, kind of a thing. Like we need a trend for this. Oh. I mean, I’m telling you like absolutely like how many hundreds, thousands of physicians could, could, could make that video. I mean, granted people don’t wanna get fired, but so, and that’s then whole nother issue.

Yeah. That sucks. You know? Yeah. But, um, uh, just get some private practice folks out there. I mean, I don’t do a whole lot of prior authorizations, but, uh, certainly if I ever get the opportunity like, well. I mean, I will say that I have watched that video back and cheered for myself. Yeah. As you should. Like, I’m not usually like that, but I was like, ah, man, that was good.

Had coffee you were on. Oh, I was good at that. And I was like, statistics? I’m like, yes. How many of those would you say you do like in a, the span of like a month? Oh, like peer tope. Um, I would say, I mean, a couple a week. Yeah. Yeah. [00:57:00] A couple a week and get to the level of peer-to-peer. Right. We try to get ’em approved before that, because that’s not even that, that’s, that’s just the last thing.

Right. Because yeah, people don realize the denials comes so much more frequently than that and then it just takes administrative effort. Talk about paying your staff, right, like administrative effort to, to just, you know, appeal the denials, which we know are, are being AI generated by AI now. Like they’re using AI at least to to, to just automatically deny claims now.

Yeah. It’s a big time suck. It is. It is. And uh, but you know, it’s one of those things where, you know, if you had said a year ago I had talked about a peer-to-peer call, the public wouldn’t have known what I was talking about. And I’m actually, I’m so glad now that this one little view of our world has been opened up.

And I think there’s others. There’s others. We just need to tap into them. Well, as an ophthalmologist, that was a devious smile. [00:58:00] I just think there are, there’re those possible moments Oh yeah. That were for there, you know, plenty of opportunity. Yeah. As an, as an ophthalmologist who’s dabbled in subspecialty plastics from time to time, I will say I’ve done a, I’ve done a blepharoplasty here too.

I just, I just, I mean, totally with you. Fellow, fellow subspecialty plastics doctor. Pec, I’ve seen the eyeball. Yeah. I’m APEC and I’ve seen a breast, so, you know, what if eyeball adjacent occasionally. So, right. Like, no, do not let me operate on your eyeball. I was just, I was just imagining me like, like on the other end of the phone with you trying to argue about like a breast reconstructive surgery.

It’s like, what are we doing? But me and now what world do we live in? What are we doing? I’m just like, am I thinking I’m just, I gotta make this a hundred bucks. So just keep dragging it out. Like I don’t [00:59:00] even know what that person was thinking. Yeah. You know, nothing good was happening. I know. It’s so, yeah.

As we, as we wrap up here, I, yeah. I wanna. I, I mean, I know you’re, you’re, you’ve been trying to just save your practice and like, take care of your patients and that that alone is like plenty worth your time. Plenty. Yeah. Um, but have, have you thought about, you know, you, you’ve been kind of, I mean, it sounds like you’ve been advocating for change in healthcare and, and insurance you reform.

Oh, I know where you’re going. No, no, I, I, I’m wondering, like, have you, have you thought about like, you know, just continuing on this path and maybe, you know, using your platform as it’s grown to, to do bigger things, you know, I, or new projects or something, or, I don’t know. I love it and yes, I have. Yeah. And I think I am, I am trying to take care of my people, you know, like trying to make sure they’re safe and [01:00:00] sound, my, my team, my patients.

Um, but I do actually really love this, this part of what I’ve found. I’m enjoying it. And, um, I, I, I don’t know that, I don’t know how to make that sustainable long term other than I’m just gonna keep doing it and keep trying to do it. I, I just love it. I love talking about making things better and telling the truth and, um, yeah.

So, I mean, great. I’ll just, maybe I’ll, maybe I’ll, um, maybe I’ll start doing skits. You need a collaboration. We need to collaborate. Yeah, we need to, we need to I be the plastic ex surgeon in your Yeah. Yeah. I do something. There’s a breast implant. There’s something funny about in your eye. Absolutely. My God, that’s great.

If you have any, if you have any tips or tips for me, I’ll, I’ll take ’em from you. I mean, you guys are crushing it and doing all the things. I just, I don’t know how to do it other than I’m just gonna keep doing it. [01:01:00] I, I mean a lot of it is just learning on the fly, right? You just have an idea of what you, what you think might be none of this was the plan.

Lemme tell you we plan this stuff. We just kinda like, you know, kept doing it. And uh, actually it wasn’t until Kristin quit her job and started running Glaucomflecken, as the ceo EO and that’s when things really started to, to build up. ’cause I didn’t know what the hell I was doing. I was just like, I’m just gonna dress up in whatever I can find in my kids.

Yeah, exactly. I was like, if you’re gonna spend time doing this, I have to make it legitimate in order to face society, which includes making it an actual business so that if I do get sued by a health insurance company, uh, I mean, it’s not like I haven’t tried. Stop it. I’m not gonna call sexism here.

United. I don’t wanna put you in the firing block or anything. Look, I’m actually, I’m gonna stop talking. So, so, so, a few years back, Aetna started to require prior authorizations for every cataract surgery that was performed. [01:02:00] Which is, um, ridiculous. You can imagine. ’cause everybody gets cataracts, everybody gets right.

Uh, so, so huge deal. And um, uh, and so I made a skit about it. And in the skit, I, I mentioned as the Aetna representative that the mission statement for Aetna is just be evil. And I put a, I put a, a sheet of paper on my wall with the Aetna logo and under it it said, mission statement, be evil. And if that didn’t incite some kind of legal recourse, I don’t know what I can do.

I don’t know. That is. Yeah. Right. So, and uh, but I did, I did receive an email, um, from somebody who knew somebody in like the C-suite mm-hmm. At the organization. And they were pissed about that video that I made. Yeah. So the CMO wanted it taken off the internet. Yeah. They were like, that’s that’s not how the internet works.

No, not, not what happens with the internet. So, uh, I love that you didn’t take it off the [01:03:00] internet. Oh, no, no. He didn’t say that to us. He said that to his team. He was like, you guys get this taken off the internet. Yeah. The CMO of, of the, the health insurance company told his, his underlings to get it removed from the internet.

Um, well, I want you to have all the freedom to continue to do all the things you’re doing, so, oh, well, however magical spells are protecting you. I love them. Keep going. Uh, I wanna say it’s First Amendment, but I’m not sure how much that helps these days. But anyway, um. Alright. So what, uh, before we wrap up, do you anything else?

Uh, where can people find you? It’s, I mean, it’s Dr. Elisabeth Potter on Instagram and TikTok and versions of that elsewhere. And, and if, if people wanna, wanna help you Yeah. How can we help with, with your, if people do, it’s not, it people want to help. Yeah. Yeah. So you have your GoFundMe, I have a GoFundMe and it’s linked on, on like the top of those things.

You can find me even if you just Google. Okay. GoFundMe. And then how about like [01:04:00] non-monetary things? If people wanna do that too? Is there anything that is Absolutely. I mean I’d say first of all, the encouragement, feel free to send those positive vibes my way written than otherwise. Yeah. I do like cookies, so.

Okay. There you go. Um, no, but I mean, I’m gonna be, um, I am gonna be talking about the open enrollment period and so if folks wanna help, I’d say get out your, sharpen your pencils. You know, log into your email, get ready to write a very polite letter to HR to say, let’s do better. Let’s apply some pressure.

And you have a website, dr potter.com. Sure do. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time. Uh, it’s, it’s, I’ve, I’ve been wanting to, to have this conversation for quite a while, so yeah. It really, truly is an honor. It was a lot of, it’s a lot of fun. We got, we got, I just wanna do it again, dude. Yeah. You guys are great.

You’re inspiring. Like seriously, I mean, you have made it easier for me to do what I do. There are moments when I’ve watched what you’ve done and watched us getting gone. That’s [01:05:00] awesome. Like it. So Great. Now that I know that you’re not getting harassed by United, it feels a little different, but Right.

Y’all, what’s going on there? Yeah. Uh, and I’ll just, I’ll work on the plastic surgeon character. I’ll, yeah. It’s the least we could do. Yeah. Alright. Thanks a lot. Thanks guys.

What did she say? Uh, an ordinary, normal person doing extraordinary things. A normal person in extraordinary circumstances. But also, isn’t that like a quote? I don’t know, but it’s, it’s also, she also quote doing It’s from the Avengers. No. But also she is doing extraordinary things. She is, oh man. She is a powerhouse.

It’s really cool. I I encourage all of you to go and, and follow her on social media. Um, it, it’s, and she mentioned several times, like, just like telling the truth, like being, being truthful and that, that’s the kind of thing that’s very refreshing on social media right now. Yeah. [01:06:00] ’cause there’s a lot of like, how do you believe, like anything, what this person’s saying or, or, you know?

And so having someone who’s very, just very authentic, I think it appeals to a lot of people. Yeah. So, uh, for sure. That was a lot of fun. Um, all right. Should we, uh, should we get to a story Okay. Before we wrap up? Sure. I, I told you a story about an an eye spider last week. Uhhuh? Yeah. Do you remember that one?

I sure do. Okay. Well, we have another story from Anna. Okay, good. Alright. Story. I hope this is not a spider story. Story number two. Our dog lost most of her vision due to a toxoplasmosis infection from eating cat poop. That could be the whole story right there. We lived in a small town and the vet thought it was a degenerative condition, common in shepherd breeds.

But then we moved to the Atlanta metro area and took her to a specialist who immediately recognized it and prescribed meds to kill the infection. We treat toxoplasmosis in humans too. The damage was already done after years of letting toxoplasmosis run rampant, but we [01:07:00] prevented it from getting worse and her eye pressures returned to normal levels almost immediately.

Even if she didn’t regain her sight, her eyes stopped being a source of discomfort and we didn’t need to surgically remove them. That’s a plus. Always, always a good idea. Shout out to Animal Eye Specialists on Cobb Parkway in Marietta, Georgia. Hey, their team is always so patient, caring, efficient, and respectful of us and our sweet pup Penny.

Aw, nice job you guys. Yeah. Um, yeah. Talks about another p with eye problems like ours. By the time she died at the age of 14, she had learned to listen when we gave directions like left, right. Step up, down. Oh my goodness. What a good dog. Yeah. What a good dog. Thank you for that story, Anna. Uh, I think Kristin liked that much more than me.

Spider. I like that better. Eyeball spider. I mean, it’s sad. It’s sad, but it’s not eyeball. Spiders. Yeah, it’s, it’s stuffing. Yeah. It’s a good, good dog. Alright. Lots of ways to, can hit us up. Uh, if you have any comments or suggestions, uh, email us. Knock [01:08:00] n high@humancontent.com. Uh, visit us in our Human Content podcast family on Instagram at TikTok and Instagram and TikTok at Human Content Pod.

Thanks to all the listeners leaving reviews. We love those reviews. Uh, go over to our YouTube channel at Glaucomflecken. Leave a comment. We can give you a shout out at Daphne 0 1 2 3 on YouTube said, Soylent is yummy now. No sulfur farts. They figured it out. LOL What we’re gonna have to revisit.

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