Animal and Human Similarities with Veterinarian Dr. Rachel Courville

KKH Trailer Wide


Will: [00:00:00] Knock,


hi! Knock, knock, hi!

Hello and welcome to Knock, Knock, Hi! with the Glockenflackens. I am your host, Will Flannery, 

Kristin: Glockenflacken. And I am your host, Kristen Flannery, also known as Lady Glockenflacken. 

Will: Well, we did it. We heard your recommendations. We read your emails. We read your comments on all the social media platforms and we invited A veterinarian to talk with us today.

We did it. We’re delving into the world of non human medicine and it is exciting. It’s fun, very similar in a lot of ways, but also very different in others. Today, we are talking to Dr. Rachel Corville. She is a veterinarian and content creator living [00:01:00] in Chicago. Uh, she’s got a great, uh, social media presence.

She’s on Instagram and TikTok, um, and, uh, it just, uh, great. Great vet content. I feel like we need, we need good doc, uh, human doctor content. too. And so, um, And there’s a lot 

Kristin: of overlap between the two. I think you can learn from each other. And, you know, there’s a lot of people that are 

Will: pet parents. I’ve come across a couple of her, uh, TikToks.

Uh, she’s BellaVet on TikTok. And, uh, the algorithm has fed me a little animal content. The kids like to watch. Like the dogs and the cats and the funny things they do. Um, and uh, and I learned as a, as a pet owner, I did learn a thing or two about, about animals and animal medicine. Very good. And um, uh, how do you feel about our dog since talking with our guest today?

You mean uter 

Kristin: dog. You keep making this mistake. 

Will: Maybe I’m just wishful [00:02:00] thinking that, uh, this could share the load. It is a big load. 

Kristin: Look, he does have a big load. too. Yes, he does, and that is exactly why we… Set these terms of negotiation around pet parenthood. Is it because… You are a single pet 

Will: parent. Is it because you had so many pets growing up?

Look, here’s the 

Kristin: deal. I had country pets. We lived out in the country. Country pets and city pets is a whole different thing. Country pets live outside, they poop outside, you don’t have to pick it up, you 

Will: know? Your stories about your country pets are hilarious. 

Kristin: Yeah? Oh boy, I do have some country pets.

Stories. I recently, I found, um, you know, I was going through some old sentimental items because I was looking for something I had written when I was a kid. Didn’t find it, but I did find some letters that I had written to my grandparents. And, you know, one of them, it’s like just little updates about my life.

I’m, I don’t know, given the, the events described, I’m going to guess I was maybe 10, [00:03:00] you know, just filling her in on stuff. And, oh, by the way, um, Chauncey and. Stache, that was a dog and a cat that we had, um, they both got run over by a car and they’re dead now. But, anyway, school’s going good! How are you guys?

It was just like, a fact of life, like, you are attached to your pets, but, you 

Will: know. You had, you had so many. You would just collect anything that came into 

Kristin: the yard. No, no, again, not me. This is not me. This is my mom. Yes. And this probably does go into like, we just, we had, uh, I can’t even count how many dogs and cats we had.

We had rabbits. We had chickens. We had, um, horses. We had a cow at one point and we did not have a farm. Yeah. This was all like in our front yard that the cow 

Will: lived. The best, the best story though is the time that a bobcat, uh, Oh. Snatched up your pet cat. 

Kristin: What was [00:04:00] that cat’s name? Okay, so that was a stray that adopted us, and, um, it’s, it made these squeaking sounds a lot, and so we named it Grinceant, which in French, we, and who knows, this is probably, like, we were 12 using early versions of the internet to figure this out, so maybe that’s not right, but we, to our understanding, that meant squeaky.

So it’s, essentially, his name was Squeaky. Um… She got drug off by a bobcat 

Dr. Rachel Courville: one day, and we were 

Kristin: like, well, that’s the end of that cat, didn’t think too much of it, and then she came back, a little while later, pregnant. And then she had a litter of kittens, and my younger brother got attached to one of the kittens, and so we kept one.

They were born without 


Will: Born without tails. Because they were like half 

Kristin: bobcat. Half bobcat. And this one was really like, it was just like this ball of fur, and so we named it Chunk. [00:05:00] Yeah. And so Chunk was with our family for a good long while, and for a while it was the two of them, Chunk and his mother, and they would go out hunting.

Yeah. And they were really good hunters, and 

Will: Um, I met, I met Chunk. That was when I came into the picture because he still had Chunk. Yes. And he was, like he would just like be outside for days. Yep. And then he’d come back and just start like yowling on the, on the porch. Yes, one time. With a whole rabbit in his gut.


Kristin: and he was just in so much pain from eating like an entire rabbit. And he was just sitting there like, oh, on the porch, but yeah, he would bring his treasures home. And you know, his trophies, good squirrels and rabbits and all sorts of things. Yeah. We had, we had all kinds of pets and my, and my, um, my dad worked in the agricultural industry, both my parents really.

So, so that, yes, that’s all a long story to say. This is why I, I washed my hands of being any kind of [00:06:00] pet owner because I’ve had enough. 

Will: Well, let’s get to, uh, our guest who, who deals with pets and animals on a daily 

Dr. Rachel Courville: basis. I like 

Kristin: pets. I want to get a bunch of hate mail. No, no, no. You love, you love our dog.

I do love our 

Will: dog. You love that I do 

Kristin: all the, like, chores. I just didn’t want the responsibilities associated with it, so that was the deal we made. We can get a pet if I don’t have to do it, but yes. All right. Oh, and there he’s got something to say about it. He’s like, Hey, he 

Will: knows we’re talking about him.

All right. Let’s get to it. Here is Dr. Rachel Korbel.

Today’s episode is brought to you by the Nuance Dragon Ambient Experience or DAX for short. This is AI powered ambient technology. That helps physicians be more efficient and to reduce the clinical documentation that leads to so much burnout in medicine these days. To learn more about how DAX can help reduce burnout and restore the joy of [00:07:00] practicing medicine, stick around after the episode or visit Nuance.

com slash discover DAX. That’s N U A N C E dot com slash discover D A X. Alright, we are here with Rachel Corville, Dr. Corville, a veterinarian extraordinaire out of Chicago. Thank you so much for joining us. Of course, 

Dr. Rachel Courville: thank you so much for having me. 

Will: I can’t tell you how many emails and messages that we get.

I probably get more emails from veterinarians. Uh huh. Than any human doctor ever has, telling me that we have to talk to, we have to discuss whatever, whatever it is, we have to talk about animal medicine. So that’s what we’re getting, and we’re so excited, so again, you know, thank you for taking the time.

Of course. I’m so excited. I, I, my first question for you, do animals have health insurance? 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Some of them [00:08:00] do. It’s not, uh, universal in any, uh, shape or form, but pet insurance has been, uh, becoming a bit more popular over the last five to 10 years. And, uh, I spent my first year of practice in emergency medicine.

I’m in general practice and, uh, I’ve seen some crazy stuff and I am a huge, huge supporter of pet insurance for everybody. 

Will: Yeah, okay. Are there like, uh, large, uh, evil corporations, uh, that, that are in the, uh, animal health insurance game, like there are in 

Dr. Rachel Courville: people? There are some that I like better than others, I’ll just say it that way, but, um, there are a few that I really love.

Trupanion is one of them, they’re, uh, incredible, and, uh, that’s what I have for my dog, and, um, yeah, some cover more than others, but I think… Ethically, there’s a lot of good in, uh, pet insurance just because all of it’s reimbursement based at least for the vast majority of cases. And so that connection to the hospital and to, there’s no one [00:09:00] telling me what I can or can’t do.

It’s a matter of like, uh, I do whatever I think is best and then the owner submits all of their receipts and just sees what they get covered kind of a thing. So it’s like being out of network, 

Will: sort of. You don’t, you don’t have prior authorizations? No prior authorizations. What are the chances, Kristen, what are the chances that, um, that, uh, that Rachel here, uh, convinces human doctors to become animal doctors?

Do you think there’s, do you think that’s a possibility? 

Kristin: I mean, just on that alone, maybe. No prior auth. That’d be pretty big. Yeah. There’s a lot of time you’d get back. Yeah. 

Will: Well, we’re constantly, we’re always talking to, to, to, uh, human physicians about, you know, why their motivations for going into medicine or choosing different fields.

So what is it, what was it about, about veterinary medicine for you that you, that put you on this path? Yeah. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Well, uh, I think the. The easiest thing to say is humans are gross, and I didn’t want to practice on them. I couldn’t agree more. 

Will: Hold on, hold on, but did [00:10:00] you see what was coming out of our dog’s ass?

I think 

Kristin: any, any living thing is kind of gross. Yeah. I’m sorry. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: I agree with that as well. Um, I guess in my level of grossness, I can, I can stomach all the animal stuff. people stuff. I think that that connection is just a little too close for me. So I guess that’s more answering why I didn’t go into human medicine, but why I went into veterinary medicine.

I was, um, it’s kind of a classic vet story. I was five years old. My aunt was a vet tech at the time, and she gave me a tour of our local pet’s office, and I was hook, line, sink, or subscribed. And, uh, and then as I got older, uh, I was 13 when I watched my first Um, and then I started working at the vet clinic and then kind of in high school, my love of math and science grew and I was like, Oh wait, this, I’m actually going to do this.

Okay. That’s kind of how 

Will: it happened. And, and what is the training like? So start with, start with college. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Yeah. Um, uh, I left because my, my, uh, path is, slightly different than, than some. So, [00:11:00] uh, so in college you get, it’s a four year degree in undergrad and then it’s a four year degree in grad school, a doctorate.

And then, um, cool thing about veterinary medicine is it’s optional to specialize. Once you graduate with a DBM, you can go into general practice. You can sometimes go into ER depending on the hospital’s requirements. And, uh, and then you can go on to specialize. Some people do an internship. Straight out and then go on to specialize.

So, um, I would say maybe 20, 30 percent of my class specialized and the rest went into general practice, either large or small animal, but, uh, I joke that my path was a little bit different because, um, I’m technically a college dropout and, uh, I say that in the, uh, in the least serious way possible because, um, my mom is an accountant and.

The girl likes to save money and she saw an opportunity when I was like a sophomore in college and she said, Hey, only like 10 vet schools actually require a bachelor’s degree. And I was like, mom, are you telling me to drop out of school and like get an earlier try? And she was like, yeah, I’m saving an entire year’s worth of [00:12:00] tuition.

And so we We, you know, crammed all of my, uh, undergrad, uh, like my pre rec classes into three years. And then I applied a year early, didn’t expect to get in. I thought it would just be a practice run, um, and got into three schools. And then I was like, well, I guess we’re doing this. And so that’s awesome.


Will: He just accelerated the end goal there a little bit. That’s good. 

Kristin: Saved some money. Very astute 

Will: mom. And so now, a question I’ve always wanted to ask a veterinarian, what exactly is the scope of, as far as animals, that you take care of in a day to day? Well 

Dr. Rachel Courville: for me, I take care of dogs and cats. Um, that’s from a practical knowledge standpoint.

If someone put a bunny in front of me, I would, like, maybe be able to open a textbook and get through it, but I would be, like, looking stuff up every step of the way, because I haven’t had a, uh, you know, anyone mentor me through, uh, those kinds of things. Uh, or exotic medicine, as we call it. And, [00:13:00] uh, But we can do small animal, large animal, any domesticated, uh, pet is, or, uh, animal in, you know, the food industry or the fiber industry or any of those things, um, are under our scope as long as you’ve had, you know, proper training and, and kind of on the job mentorship.

for those things. Um, we also do wildlife to an extent. Zoo medicine is a specialty in veterinary medicine. Um, and so there’s really not any animal that we don’t do, uh, except humans. Um, and, but it’s just a matter of there for certain species, there’s a higher level of training that you should have and that you need to, to work 

Will: with.

So you got zoo medicine. There’s, I know that there’s like large, like horses, right? That’s like a, a separate area, I guess. Yeah, 

Dr. Rachel Courville: so, 

Kristin: Oh, you can specialize in a particular 

Dr. Rachel Courville: animal? Is that what that is? Yeah, to an extent. I think so. Yeah. So when you graduate, a lot of people ask you, uh, in veterinary medicine, if they’re, you know, your, your professor or something, Oh, do you want to go large or [00:14:00] small animal?

And those are kind of the two main distinctions. Um, and I, some schools do, it’s called tracking where you can. take fewer classes in the one that you’re not interested in, more classes in the one that you’re interested in. Mine didn’t do that. So I, I was in there with the horses and the pigs and the cows too.

And, um, and our national veterinary licensing exam is, um, covers all of them as well. Um, and so, so that’s, Kind of the two big distinctions, and if you say small animal, and then that’s usually just dogs and cats, but there’s a little subsect of that called exotics, where it’s, you know, your bunnies, reptiles, uh, all those guys that I don’t personally do, but I’ve worked with veterinarians who do, and it’s so much fun to see them come into the hospital, get to hang out with 

Will: them.

Now, Dr. Corville, do you, how often do you see people come in to the, to see you, uh, humans that look like their dogs? Uh, it’s not uncommon. Yes, yes, because we have that [00:15:00] little situation going on in our house. Oh, do you? Um, yeah, we have a standard poodle. Okay. Okay. All he, his, his name is Milo, and we, um, we look a bit alike.

They both 

Kristin: have curly hair, of course. Mm-hmm. , uh, Milo’s hair is brown, mixed with silver. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: There you go. . I’ll just let you use your eyeballs 

Kristin: here. . I see, I see. They both are all arms and legs. Uhhuh, . Yes. Prominent, prominent 

Will: elbows. I’m an ophthalmologist and my dog has eye problems. Mm-hmm. , oh, what do they have?

Uh, uh, so he has, um, uh, he had entropian. Okay. Uh, you know, so, you know, eyelid issues and, um, I think, I think he was so we rescued him. Okay. And you probably get so tired of people like doing this, like No. Telling you about, it’s, it’s like, it’s like human medicine. Like I swear, it’s like, it’s like, you know, you’re going to like a family reunion.

Oh, can you take a look at this rash? Can you look at my rash? Yeah. You tell me. I’ve had this [00:16:00] weird thing happen to me. You probably get everybody’s talking about their 

Dr. Rachel Courville: pets to you. It does happen quite a bit. I like to say there’s, there’s a circle, uh, there’s your inner circle and, uh, I’ll invite you guys into the inner circle.

You get a free pass. Um, friends and family are in the inner circle. They can ask me a weird question. I’ll, I’ll do my best to answer it. You know, it’s not legal medical advice. And then, um, we had the ex boyfriend from, uh, you know, high school. It’s, it’s not in the inner circle. And when I, when he texts me, I just say, go to your vet.

I’m sorry. I can’t help you. 

Will: Well, what, uh, actually, so what we’ll do, I won’t talk about how me and my dog look alike, um, instead. I want to talk about the time that you did bloodletting on a cat. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Yeah, that, if you had told me when I graduated that that would be a thing that I would do for a legitimate medical reason, I would have just laughed in your face.

And, um, yeah, so, uh, it was a is a little cat named Tiny. Yup. Aptly named. And Tiny came [00:17:00] in cause, uh, her parents were saying she’s walking a little funny and, um, just not wanting to jump as much. And so I was like, Oh, maybe some orthopedic thing, maybe a, you know, sprained muscle or something like that. Um, and in cats, uh, if they walk, all dogs and cats should be walking on their tiptoes.

And if they walk with their heels down, It basically flags a couple diseases, diabetes and kidney issues, mainly, that tends to happen. And so that was like floating in the back of my head of like, okay, we’ll do some labs to, you know, rule those things out. Um, the cat was otherwise fine neurologically, like pretty okay.

And, uh, and then I got the blood work back the next day and I was like, Hey, you know, we’ve done some testing, got the blood work back the next day. And, um, the hematocrit or the percent of red blood cells in this cat’s body was. Uh, I don’t know the exact reference ranges off the top of my head, but it shouldn’t be more than like 45 percent around there.

And it was 75 percent and, uh, Cat’s blood was kind of, once it gets that thick with red blood cells, it becomes kind of sludgy. And. So I called a [00:18:00] specialist at the lab being like, how, uh, urgent do I have to be about this? Cause I’d never seen it before. And, um, and they were like, Oh, send it to the emergency room now.

And I was like, Oh, okay, but I’m going to call you back. And so, um, I sent the cat to the emergency room and, um, cause what it had was, uh, polycythemia, which is way too many red blood cells. And then you have to figure out how, why the cat’s making so many there’s. If there’s something wrong with your heart, you can do that.

If there’s something wrong with your lungs, if you have a kidney tumor, or if your bone marrow just kicks out way too many. It’s kind of like a cancer, but kind of not. It’s, it’s a oopsie daisy of the bone marrow. And, um, I like that. 

Kristin: Technical medical term, oopsie daisy of the bone marrow. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: And so it went to the ER.

It got phlebotomy and a bunch of testing. We ruled out everything but the heart. Because we need to schedule to see a cardiologist. Um, and the scheduling took a few, and where I’m at, cardiologists can be a hard person to get an appointment with. And so, [00:19:00] um, took a while. And what can happen if the blood is too sludgy for too long is you can’t get oxygen to the brain.

You can’t. start having seizures. And so, uh, that’s the danger zone we wanted to stay out of. And how we did that is I became good at this. The first time was a little rough. The second time was, was much better. Put catheter in each arm and you, uh, take out a certain amount of blood as you’re putting in fluids to make sure the blood pressure doesn’t drop.

And, uh, yeah, it was very strange and, you know, phlebotomy, removal, blood, bloodletting, it’s, it’s, it’s all technically, you know, Same stuff. And it was so strange for my nurses who were, you know, I was monitoring sedation and all that and they were just pulling blood out of this cat and they would get like, you know, 10 mils of blood, which is a lot for a cat.

You’d usually only need about two for, to run tests and stuff. And they’d be like, you mean to tell me I throw this away now? Yes. And it was, uh, I love Tiny. She was a spicy lady, so she had to be kind of sedated no matter what you do. And, uh, [00:20:00] so it’s very strange to tell your nurse that on an aggressive cat to just dump the blood that you just, it just went, you know, against everything in their brain to be like, no, the sample.

And I was like, yeah, that’s what we got to do. And, um, yeah. 

Will: Did 

Dr. Rachel Courville: you have to keep doing it? So we had to, we had to keep doing it until she got her cardiac appointment because if she had a heart condition, basically the treatment for the bone marrow condition is a very, very powerful drug, um, that, you know, makes your bone marrow, uh, go down and, or.

You know the levels of it. Um, and so you don’t want to start that drug if you’re not absolutely sure what’s going on and so we had to rule out the heart stuff and then um, Once we were able to do that then we were I was also under the guise of an internist doing all this Um, we were able to start that that very powerful drug and she’s doing much 

Will: better So you mentioned cardiologists internists?

Yeah so I, maybe [00:21:00] the reason that people keep telling me to like, to feature a veterinarian, um, is because I guess that means people are actually watching my content with all the human doctors. And so is there, you mentioned the cardiologist, do you see overlap in like personalities? Is it between human medicine and animal medicine?

Dr. Rachel Courville: thousand percent. And, uh, I spent my first year of practice in a, uh, in a pretty big specialty hospital, and I was in the emergency department. And, um, let’s just say your neurologist impression is spot on. Uh, and, uh, there is, um, uh, I just remember in vet school we had these orthopedic surgeons who would do Movem beard together and they would do CrossFit together and they were just absolute ortho bros and it wasn’t the emergency medicine physician but one of the [00:22:00] surgeons would show up in full biking outfits with the helmet on and so the day that I saw that character I was like Are you kidding me?

This is so specific. Uh, so yeah, it’s, it’s pretty darn accurate, and so that’s how I kind of stumbled across your content. That 

Will: is funny. Is there a veterinarian, um, psychiatrist? 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Uh, we call them, kind of, we call them behavioralists. Because, uh, you know, things get a little harder to do when you can’t say you can’t actually talk to your patients.

Um, that’s right. But it doesn’t stop them from having behavioral issues. I, uh, especially for some of our, our covid pups that made or may or may not have some separation anxiety, uh, I have, it’s not uncommon for me to prescribe, uh, some Prozac for those kiddos. Um, and so we do use a lot of those medications if things kind of start to get out of my wheelhouse.

with that, then I’ll send them to a behavioralist if, if they’re really an aggressive pet that we need to, you know, do things with. And, uh, there’s a ton of help that can be done. Behavior is a very cool [00:23:00] specialty in veterinary medicine. 

Will: Yeah, and that requires like an extra year training or 

Dr. Rachel Courville: so All I don’t know.

It’s kind of like human medicine how some Specialties are a longer run than others most specialties require a one year Internship like a rotating internship throughout the specialties and then after that typically a three to four year residency And and I believe that’s true for behavior And and I know that’s true for all of like surgery ophthalmology cardiology all of those guys Do 

Will: you have scribes?

I wish. Is that a thing? 

Dr. Rachel Courville: I very much wish I do. Uh, I don’t. That would make my life a thousand times easier, especially given how, um, fine I may or may not be on my medical records at this current moment in time, but uh, I, I have a friend who works for an ER in Chicago and they, they don’t have one scribe per doctor, like you’re kinda lucky if you get a scribe that shift, but she says, uh, the shifts with their scribes are [00:24:00] Just much smoother, and I’m, uh, always jealous of her when she gets universally 

Will: beloved, the scribe, the medical scribe.

Now, um, I imagine also, uh, your job has become, has just been challenging because of the pandemic. Because, like, everyone was getting dogs and cats, right? Absolutely. Uh, what, so what, I just want to know, like, what was that? Like in the veterinary community, because, um, I imagine, I mean, it’s, it’s hard to, like, to, you know, bring your pet in to, to see somebody kind of urgently.


Kristin: it’s hard to find openings. Yeah. 

Will: Yeah. I imagine it’s because there’s so many pets now. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: There are a lot of pets now. Um, right in the thick of it, we all went curbside, so you could bring your pet in, but it would, all of our discussion would be through the phone because we still, while, uh, Dogs and cats couldn’t really catch or, you know, transmit COVID.

They’re like some rare case studies, but, um, it wasn’t really [00:25:00] a thing. Uh, we weren’t worried about that so much, but the humans basically infecting our team members, we had to be really careful about that so that we could stay in practice and not have everybody else sick. And so, um, so curbside practice was my entire first and like half of my second year of practice was over the phone.

really strange to, once we got back into using exam rooms, I’m like, what’s an exam room? How do I use it? Um, how’s this flow going to work? And so, uh, so that was a really big part of it. And then I think also like, you know, the pandemic was exceptionally hard on, on everybody. And it was also really hard on the veterinary staff and, um, Especially in the emergency room, it’s hard to trust someone with your pet.

That’s just this kind of faceless, you know, it’s all over the phone. It’s really hard to, to do that. And, um, and so I think there’s, there’s been a big short, like a staffing shortage in veterinary medicine. So that’s kind of. Uh, contributed to some of the difficulties in getting appointments, I think, but you know, we’re all just doing our best out here.

I [00:26:00] know. 

Will: Yeah, exactly. And staffing. I mean, it’s everywhere. Like everybody’s got, you know, staffing issues and it’s just been so challenging, but, uh, I just, it seems like there’s just a lot of COVID puppies and everybody’s home and needs to, I don’t know. I don’t know why, but. Needs a companion. Well, it 

Dr. Rachel Courville: was, it was lonely.

Kristin: Yeah, lonely and needs somebody. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Yeah. And, uh, yeah, kind of right in the middle of the pandemic there and all veterinarians kind of knew this was going to be happening is, you know, you’re home all day with your pet and then you have to go back to work eight hours a day. A lot of those pets didn’t, didn’t do so well with that transition.

And so we saw a lot of anxiety in those pets, but, um, but yeah, there are a lot of, uh, COVID dogs. And I like to say, at least during the pandemic, it was. It was kind of cute. I feel like the COVID parent, pet parent was, um, you know, before then, uh, a pet parent would be like, Oh, I think this is wrong. Or he’s been doing this for a few days.

And then what I noticed during the pandemic is like, they would [00:27:00] look at you funny and then you’d be in my exam room and they’d be like, I don’t know, he blinked twice in a way that he had never before. And here’s my dog. And so they were very cautious parents, which I would much rather have than the alternative, but it was an interesting time for sure.

Will: And, and you have some, um, also some interesting experiences outside of dogs and cats. Um, you, you teased us on a little story about, uh, of laying the, uh, the law down at a horse show. Yep. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Yep. I, so to… To get experience hours for vet school, you don’t want to just work with the animal that you eventually want to work with.

Like if I only had dog and cat experience, they would probably say, Hey, your, your application isn’t quite done yet. And, uh, so I went and got horse experience and I found this really amazing veterinarian who, uh, was the head, the, the testing tech, the head. testing vet at a horse show, um, because believe it or not, some people do use performance enhancing drugs illegally on their horses.

[00:28:00] And, um, just, just a wild thing to wrap my brain around. It’s like a roided out horse. Like 

Will: racehorses, right? 

Kristin: And, um, yeah. What kind of performance enhancing drugs? Like what 

Dr. Rachel Courville: are they? Are they testosterone? I didn’t know, but I’ll, I’ll, I’ll just keep it to, to kind of generalizations of, uh, there were two types of Sporting events in this, uh, specific, um, show and one needed to go fast and one needed to be perfect.

And so you would do uppers for the ones that needed to go fast and downers for the ones that needed to be perfect. So yeah. 

Will: Perfect is the, the horse dancing 

Dr. Rachel Courville: probably? Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think they had dressage. Dressage. 

Kristin: Dressage. Dressage. You don’t want 

Dr. Rachel Courville: them getting too skittish. Yeah. Right. And so, uh.

So she was the head vet for doing that. I was what they called a drug testing technician, which is a glorified pee catcher. Um, and so I just had the biggest urine collection kit you’ve ever seen, like cup. Uh, and I would just wait [00:29:00] there because racehorses are trained to pee on command with a whistle and, um, all the other horses that I, that were, was not.

Yeah. So, um, they’ll, they’ll make them pee right before a race. I think I could be wrong. I’m not a horse person, but to, you know. Lighten the load, maybe, before a race. Well, that makes sense, right? 

Will: I can’t run very fast, and I gotta pee. 

Kristin: Yeah. Well, there is that expression, you gotta pee like a racehorse. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: There you go.

And, um, so these horses did not have that skill, unfortunately, so I would just have to wait in the 90 degree heat, you know, with my little cup. Do you 

Kristin: have to be just holding it there the whole time? They give you some kind of cue, like, you know, If it were the other end, they might lift their tail or something.

Is there something you can 

Dr. Rachel Courville: watch for? a little bit. We had all the tricks too. They really like peeing on fresh bedding. If you, if you’d been there for a while, then, uh, then the, the people that own the horse might come around with some fresh bedding cause pee, they just love peeing on it. So that’s 

Will: humans and animals.

So similar [00:30:00] 

Dr. Rachel Courville: toddlers anyway. And, um, but the interesting part about this story or the, the kind of crooks of it is, um, my, the veterinarian that I worked with, um, moved to immigrate to the United States, um, from Germany when she was 16. So she’s a fluent German speaker, but you wouldn’t really know it talking to her.

And, um, I, and we had people all around the world who flew in for this horse show is a very big deal. And so we randomly selected this one horse. I said, Hey, I have to follow you back to the, to the barn. And I did. And for the first 30 minutes or so, they were very nice to me. And one thing my vet told me, you know, as training before this day, she said, if anyone’s mean to you, they have no reason to be, you know, they’ve there’s something’s going on if anyone’s rude to you.

And so, uh, so for the first 30 minutes, they were okay. And then they were saying, Hey, like. How long is this going to take? I got to get back to the hotel. I have to do this. I have to do that. Like, you know, come in and kind of pressuring me. And I was like, well, you can’t take as long as it takes for your horse to beat you.

I’m not really in the driver’s seat here. And, um, so I was telling her that, and then she was getting really, uh, you know, [00:31:00] um, pressuring with me. And so I said, you know what? My, my vet can just come by, uh, and take some blood and then you’ll be on your way. And then she kind of backed off and, um. When my vet walked in the room and into the barn, someone was on the phone speaking German, and my vet’s eyes, she looked at me, and she was overhearing half of this conversation, and her eyes widened, and she goes, I’m really glad we got a sample.

And I go, uh, what? And I’m so clueless in this moment. And then, uh, she gets her sample. She walks off and then we have lunch later together. And I go, so what happened? What was all of that? And she said, one, she was on the phone with her trainer in German. She said, Hey, we gave X. XYZ, all illegal drugs this morning, and she heard that because she spoke German, and so we never would have known, uh, so yeah, just be, just word to the criminal, be very wise at what language you’re speaking and who’s around, um, but yeah, they [00:32:00] got disqualified from their, you know, multiple thousand dollar Grand Prix, so.

Oh, wow. 

Will: Geez. All right. Lesson learned. Learn German. Yeah. Learn 

Dr. Rachel Courville: German. Yes, that is the lesson. 

Kristin: right? Uh huh. Yeah. 

Will: Well, uh, the other thing I wanted to ask you about, um, which is something that we’re constantly dealing with as physicians in medicine is misinformation. Yeah. Uh, and especially with the advent of TikTok.

Uh, it’s kind of everywhere, you know, anybody can get up on social media. Well, not 

Kristin: TikTok specifically, to be fair. Social media. 

Will: Social media in general, but you know, it just, it seems amplified since the pandemic. And part of that is because you have this new social media network called TikTok. That’s like the fastest growing social media network.

So yeah, but it is everywhere. Uh. And so I’m, I’m seeing things about eyeballs all the time and like, of course I get tagged and everything that’s like eyeball related, uh, and, and [00:33:00] so I’m like, oh, yeah, that’s not right. Or that’s incorrect. I’m sure you probably don’t tattoo your eyeball. Yeah, exactly. Stop, you know, staring at the sun, all these things.

Um, and so how do you get frustrated? I’m sure you see stuff all the time about, about dogs and cats and, and vet care and all this stuff. So tell me a little bit about your experience. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Yeah. Uh, it’s, it’s quite interesting. There’s a lot of overlap. Um, there’s, you know, anti vaxxers and vet med too that, uh, there’s also a decent, I, I really do love, uh, Breeders, and I think they do an amazing job, but some of the bad seeds are out there and they are the first person to inform a new pet owner.

And, um, then when they come to see me for their first appointment, sometimes there’s quite a bit of undoing I have to do to say, oh, they told me never to get this one vaccine. And I’m like, well, The odds of the vaccine reaction to that are pretty low. The odds of getting it and it being life [00:34:00] threatening is much higher.

And so I, you know, the pros very much outweigh the cons, even if something, you know, few things have met at that center without risk. So, uh, we usually have a pretty big heart to heart if they send them with a giant do’s and don’ts list. Um, and so that can be pretty frustrating and they can get all that same information, you know, that bias from social media.

Um, I would say the biggest one that I see on social media though, and, um. And I, I kind of joke with my fellow, you know, social media friends that, uh, if you ever want engagement, you just talk about pet food. Uh, that’s just, you just say, Hey, I think the super normal pet food is a good idea. And everybody, you know, it just, it’s, it gets crazy town.

But, um, I would say the, when I tell, you know, so many times. Yeah. When I tell pet owners, they’re like, Oh, what kind of food should I get? And I’m like, Hey, these are my favorite brands, but just get food that’s cooked and that has grains in it. There’s a heart disease thing with grains, uh, grain free diets lately.

And, um, and that’s completely balanced that follows [00:35:00] these it’s called the AFCO guidelines. And those, I was like, those are my bare minimums. It’s a very low bar to pass. Um, so yeah, it’s just with raw diets, there’s an increased risk of foodborne illness. And, um, and with, grain free diets. It’s very much still under research, but um, there’s been a link to certain heart conditions.

And so we just got to be careful until we know the full picture there. 

Kristin: The raw food I get like that, that is very in line with this whole, you know, natural clean eating thing in the human world. But why the grain free? Is that like the keto 

Dr. Rachel Courville: for pets? So to my understanding, the, the grain free movement, I think, kind of stemmed off the gluten free trend, uh, a while ago.

And I do realize there’s celiac disease and that’s very legitimate for some people, but, um, but in dogs, um, they, it came out this trend of grain free diets, like grains were some bad thing and they’re, they’re just not. And, um, So, what started happening, and usually with [00:36:00] trends in nutrition and in pet food, I just say, you know, sure, fine, as long as it’s not hurting your pet anyway.

There’s only a few trends that kind of aren’t the best idea from a health standpoint. And, um, uh, and so, when I first heard about grain free diets, I was like, eh, whatever, it’ll pass, it’s just a trend. And then, uh, veterinary cardiologist started seeing what’s called dilated cardiomyopathy, where your heart balloons out so much that it can’t pump properly.

And it usually happens in two breeds. I think Dobermans is one of them. And, um, it’s kind of a genetic predisposition thing. Um, and then we started seeing it happen in a bunch of breeds that weren’t ever historically affected by this and, and in big numbers. And so a lot of the cardiologists, you know, they were the, the.

The first whistleblowers, I suppose, about it and they said, Whoa, we’re starting to see a trend here. This isn’t so great. And then the FDA actually looked into it and they saw correlation, not a causation for certain things. It was, um, grain free diets, boutique diets, and exotic. And so, [00:37:00] um, they just said, this is a correlation.

We don’t know what the cause is yet. We don’t understand the mechanism behind it, but just be really careful with these diets until we know more. And to my understanding, the, um, the current theory is that what they replaced. So they took out grains, they took out, you know, corn, things like that. And they replaced it with.

Peas, legumes, lentils, things like that. And, um, there’s a theory that those might be in some level, low level cardiotoxic because we, we never fed them to dogs in such high levels before. So maybe we just didn’t know. Um, and there’s, I could go into the details a little bit more, but yeah. 

Will: Can you imagine what would happen if we fed our dog beans?

Kristin: We cannot feed our dog literally anything except this 

Will: one food. Yeah, I see, I see all these TikToks and things of, of, of all these diets, the raw food diets. And it’s like, man, my dog seems real happy with kibble. I don’t know. 

Kristin: Well, and if we give him anything else, literally anything else, [00:38:00] even if it’s meant for dogs.

It’s like his, his colon 

Dr. Rachel Courville: explodes. Yep. My dog is the exact same way. If she doesn’t stay on her very specific kibble, if I give her a piece of lettuce, if I give her anything, she’ll, she’ll vomit 24 hours later. I don’t understand it, but it’s, it’s a thing that happens. And, uh, yeah, I would say, uh, anything about nutrition, I would take it back to what my nutritionist said in, uh, in our nutrition class, a board certified nutritionist in veterinary medicine, he would say, dogs need nutrients, not ingredients.

And they need a certain amount of protein and fat and carbs and all of those things and vitamins, but they don’t need it specifically to come from, you know, a chicken foot. They can do fine to come from any of these sources. Um, and so I think that’s. That’s what mainly I see a lot of the misinformation about is they say, Oh, I have to feed this one very specific ingredient and it’s super good and my dog will live forever.

And it’s like, if we had that, we would be screaming it from the rooftops of veterinarians would. And so, um, we just have to go with what the nutritionists say. Yeah. It really is very 

Kristin: similar to like [00:39:00] babies and toddlers and stuff, right? Anti vaxxing, what you’re feeding them, all this stuff, like it’s the same issues.

Will: Some of the, some of the, the diets, some of these dogs on Tik Tok, like they eat better than like I’ve ever eaten in my life. Like they’re, they’re just, they’re getting like filet mignon and, and it’s, it’s, it’s just out of control. Uh, let’s, let’s take a, let’s take a break and we’ll be right back with Dr.

Rachel Corville.

Uh, hey Kristen, what do you got 

Kristin: there? Oh, this? Oh, well, you may not know this as an ophthalmologist, but, uh, this is called a stethoscope. 

Will: Yeah, I know what a stethoscope is. I also know it’s supposed to go in your ears and not sitting on top of your headphones. 

Kristin: No, I like it better this way. Besides, this is not just any stethoscope.

This is the EchoCore 500 digital stethoscope with… Three lead 

Dr. Rachel Courville: ECG. 

Will: I’ve heard about these things. 40 times noise amplification, noise cancellation, three audio filter modes, and a full [00:40:00] color display. 60 hours of battery life too. Everybody loves a good battery life. It’s durable. That’s right. Awesome. We have a special offer for our audience here in the us.

Learn slash kh. That’s KO And use code knock 50 for a 75 day risk-free trial and a free case and free shipping to the continental US to get your core five hundred’s stethoscope. Hey Kristen, can I interest you in a Demodex mite? No, you may not. You know what these little guys do?

What? They cause Demodex Blepharitis, which makes your eyelids like red, irritated, itchy. That’s gross. Well you can get checked out, you know, your eye doctor can look and see if you have them. 

Kristin: My eye doctor is currently covered in them. 

Will: And I can find out for you. Oh, good. To find out more about Demodex, go to EyelidCheck.

com. Again, that’s E Y E L I D Check. com to [00:41:00] get more information about Demodex blepharitis. Don’t get freaked out. Get checked out.

All Corville. So, uh, Rachel, you told us something that really piqued my interest, um, that you on occasion will, uh, find, uh, medications and drugs on the black market. That, uh During the course of your job. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: I do that, but, uh, there is one instance where, uh, it’s weird, I’ll explain everything, I promise, uh, but I feel unethical.

If I don’t talk about it with, with a pet owner. And so it’s a very, it’s uncomfortable for me to do. And it’s, everybody in that room is uncomfortable with that happens, but I kind of have to, um, yeah. So what leads to 

Kristin: that? Why what 

Will: was it exactly, if you can tell us, and then also how on earth do you find the black market?

Kristin: Yeah. [00:42:00] 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Great question. Google. I would love to tell you. Uh, so, uh, there is a disease in veterinary medicine that affects cats. It’s called FIP. It’s Feline Infectious Peritonitis. And, or no, sorry, Fribunus Infectious Peritonitis. I just had cats on the brain. And, uh, it, um, is, A coronavirus, but it’s nothing like COVID and, um, it is an enteric or GI coronavirus.

So it’s basically a virus, it’s a cat, it’s a virus. It gives them diarrhea for maybe a couple of days and then they get better. And nobody ever knows, um, that it had that virus. And, uh, so that’s what happens. It’s endemic in cats. So many cats have this, um, and it’s usually no big deal until that virus mutates within the cat’s body, and it’s not really spread cat to cat after that happens, um, but it mutates and becomes really, really bad, and the body basically starts overreacting to this virus, um, it, it makes the blood vessels really leaky, and one of the [00:43:00] ways it, uh, works is, um, it can put a lot of fluid into the belly, and then they, um, have abdominal effusion, and that’s, And then there’s a bunch of other things that can happen that, uh, that can be a really life threatening thing.

They can get anemia and liver disease and, and about five years ago, maybe a little bit more, uh, if, you know, at the time I was in vet school. But if, if we had had a case like this, the topic would be helping the cat feel comfortable and probably euthanasia. It’s, it was a uncurable thing. Um, the best you could really do is make them feel comfortable for whatever amount of time they had left.

But it, it was. a terminal disease. And, um, and then about when I was in vet school, uh, we started hearing about this drug that was curing cats of FIP. And we were like, what? That, huh? And it was a very strong antiviral. It’s called, uh, GS. And then there are a bunch of numbers after that. And, um, It was, there’s no legal way to obtain it.

It’s, um, [00:44:00] uh, they got it from China and it’s, it is produced by a major drug company. It was created by a major drug company. Um, uh, but it was never brought to market. And, um, I did a lot of research on it this past week because a little 20 week old kitten came to me, very cute, fluffy little thing. And it had a 105 fever and a belly full of fluid.

And I said, this is. FIP until proven otherwise. And we sent out a bunch of testing and it’s FIP. And, um, and we removed the fluid from his belly. We did a bunch of labs to, to confirm everything. Um, and my conversation with the owner goes a little something like, Hey, your cat has a disease that used to be terminal and, um, now it’s not.

And there is a drug that has an 80 percent cure rate, just about. Um, And I, I can’t not tell you about it ethically from, from that standpoint. Um, and so I usually say. There is a Facebook group where you can, and I tell them the name and you can go and look for it. Um, it used to be something that they [00:45:00] had to inject on a daily basis to their cats.

So you have to do at home injections, which is a huge thing. And, um, now it has come in in pill form and now there have been studies done on that as well. And, you know, University of California, Davis is researching this. This drug. So, so there are some very legitimate research behind it. Um, but I said, you know, this is the website that you can try to find it on.

And then I say, that’s where, that’s where I stop. And, um, you know, there are some people in those places that will tell you when you need blood work and things like that. And I’m happy to do that blood work, but I can’t help you give the drug. I can’t help you get the drug, all of those things. Cause. Uh, yeah, legal…

and um, uh, but she, she called up her breeder from this cat, and another, uh, cat in the litter also had it and was already on treatment, and, um, this treatment used to cost thousands and thousands of dollars, like, per dose, and so it was… It exorbitantly expensive. And, um, and now it is still expensive, but much less than it used to be.

And [00:46:00] I was talking to the owners and they were prepared and ready to do everything. And they said, Hey, uh, we already have it shipped to our house like the next day. And I said, okay, great. Let me know when you need me next. And, um, I was reading some of the studies behind this and, uh, one of them said. It’s a 12 week treatment, and they said the cats should essentially be back to normal in the first two to four weeks, and then they finish it out with a 12 week treatment.

And, um, we had another, uh, client in our hospital go through this treatment a few years ago, and they specifically said, hey, if you diagnose any of these cats, I Give my information to any of those owners if, if they want it. So I called her up and I said, Hey, I diagnosed this pet. Are you okay? If I, if I, you know, share emails or something.

And she said, absolutely. And I said, Oh, how’s your, how’s your cat doing? And she goes, he’s perfect. He’s sitting right next to me perfectly fine. And I was just like, Whoa. And so while I always do my best to get, uh, and prescribe, this is really literally only drug that this happens with. Um, I just feel it’s.

Ethically, you [00:47:00] know, I have to tell someone about this. Yeah, yeah. If it works so 

Kristin: well, why didn’t it go to market? 

Will: Yeah, it shouldn’t be 

Dr. Rachel Courville: black market. Yeah, there’s, there’s a theory, uh, this is more, uh, gossip in the veterinary community, but it’s, there’s a theory that, uh, the company that, um, developed it also developed, uh, a drug that at one point during the pandemic thought was…

a good drug to treat COVID. And so they kind of dropped any funding that on the veterinary side and moved it all to the human side, which would be fair for, you know, humans. I love. I got a doctorate in them, but, um, you know, humans are the priority, of course. 

Will: Well, there you go. So, so if anybody is looking for any black market, uh, medications and need to know where to find those black market medications, just contact your local veterinarian, they probably 

Dr. Rachel Courville: have a hookup.

Will: Well, I mean just hearing about about your world [00:48:00] has been great Because I just I just don’t know there’s so many similarities, right? But there are also times when when human doctors and animal doctors overlap, right? Yeah, absolutely that actually does happen. Yeah, we work together from time to time Who are these doctors that are 

Dr. Rachel Courville: doing this?

Yeah, so There’s there’s a idea and mainly talked about in veterinary medicine, but it’s called One Health and it’s kind of this thought that if veterinary medicine and human medicine and the environment are all in line that it helps everybody and if one of those things You know isn’t is being ignored or not, you know researched Well, or not taking care of then, you know, it hurts everybody, right?

Those three things depend on each other really really drastically and so there are certain times when human Doctors and medical and veterinary doctors, uh, band together. And one of them, uh, I love the story. It’s one of my favorite [00:49:00] things is, uh, so cleft palate surgeries is something that humans, uh, you know, it’s something that we do in human medicine.

It’s also something that we do in veterinary medicine. Dogs can get cleft palates too. It’s very similar in its mechanism. And, um, Uh, so there are these two doctors, I want to say sometime around 2011, um, in Michigan. Uh, the thing with veterinary medicine is we don’t always have the funding that our human counterparts have for certain, for developing certain things, but we have dogs and dogs are pretty great because they become adults by about a year, two years old.

Um, and humans take 18 years to do that. So I think we’ve got a leg up on you guys, at least in that sense, because what happens is, uh, basically these two surgeons got together and they said, Hey, let’s do cleft palate surgeries on dogs. And let’s use these new human techniques, these newly funded techniques on dogs, see how they work.

And veterinarians can both, you know, get [00:50:00] that training and bring that to our patients. But also we can give human, the human side of things, uh, the research because we can figure out how those new, um, uh, techniques work out once they’ve reached adulthood, if it is the best technique, if there’s a problem with it.

We can find that out within one to two years rather than 18 on the human side. And so our medicine can work a lot faster sometimes because the lifespan of our pets. is shorter, but also to adulthood is shorter too. And so, uh, so yeah, that was a study done, um, about ten years ago, and it’s just one of my favorite things.

That’s awesome. That is so 

Kristin: cool. Yeah, I love when things come together like that because everything in medicine is usually so siloed and separated and specialized and all of that. So I love the thinking about where things can connect. Yeah. 

Will: And I, you know, and I haven’t even, are you proud of me? I haven’t not asked once about veterinary ophthalmology.

Not, not one question. I feel like 

Kristin: we’ve already had our experience. Experience with veterinary ophthalmology. [00:51:00] We 

Will: did talk about eyelids. That’s totally true. 

Kristin: Yeah, and our dog’s utopia. 

Will: It was close. We’ll save it for next time. Um, but, uh, cause I wanna, you know, I devised a little game for us to play, but then you came in with something that’s just so much better, um, Rachel, and so we’re gonna, we’re gonna, it, it, it, It’s not so much a game, but just like, uh, an activity that you’re going to enlighten us, um, 

Kristin: about.

I think everyone can relate to 

Will: who is who has a dog can relate to this. We’re going to play Your Dog Ate What? That’s the name of the game. Your Dog Ate What? And really, it’s not even a game. You’re just going to tell us the crazy things that dogs have eaten that you’ve encountered. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: I would say the, uh, one of my favorite things to do…

One of my favorite appointments to have is to make dogs vomit. Um, sounds like a weird, uh, hobby to have, but I love it so much because it avoids surgery and there’s a surprise inside [00:52:00] factor, right? Um, so one of my favorite things is, uh, my, my coworker, uh, Uh, another doctor at my clinic has a little dog named Henry and he, uh, we nicknamed him Compost.

Actually, before she landed on the name Henry, we already knew his nickname was Compost because the little puppy eats everything. And, um, he’s kind of been our, our, a bit of our test subject in that sense. And, um, I recently did a video, uh, on my TikTok about, um, him and eating his mom’s solid gold diamond earring.

Oh no. Uh, which would have been fine, except he pooped one out and then the other one wasn’t coming and it got stuck in the stomach and we’re like, okay, where is it? We took an x ray. It’s still in the stomach. He said, great. We’ll make him vomit. There’s a drug that we can use. It’s called apomorphine and it is all of the nausea inducing parts of an opioid with none of the fun bits.

And, um, so it’s, it’s works

miraculously well and [00:53:00] he vomited, he gave her back the earrings. Um, it is a TBD if she has worn them yet. And she’s a little bit of mental gymnastics and get over that one. Um, and so that’s, that’s our friend Compost. Compost, uh, also, um, does this thing where sometimes after a walk, Two hours later, he says, hi, mom.

And, uh, he’s dribbling some urine and he’s walking kind of spazzy. And every time you come near him, there’s this thing called, um, hyper, uh, not hypersthesia, yeah, hypersthesia. And it’s basically where. We have, in ophthalmology, we have something called a menace response, where if you flick your hand in front of a dog’s eye, they should close their eye, and it’s a reflex that they learn at a very young age.

And um, funny thing about a dog in this condition is if you do it from like three feet away and you flick their hand, they’re like, and uh, they’re just really, any lights, any movement, they’re just really, uh, overreactive to, um, because Henry ate some weed. And, [00:54:00] uh,

it is also one of my favorite types of appointments, little puppies that eat weed. They’re just so cute and it’s also very rarely, if ever, a life threatening thing. You gotta give them some supportive care, help them ride it out. Um, it is technically a toxin in veterinary medicine. Nobody go home and feed your dog weed.

It does not work the same way. But, um, but they are very adorable cases and it’s nice to, to console an owner when it’s, you know, not a veterinarian’s dog, um, come in and they’re like, something’s wrong with my puppy. I’m so, aren’t they dying? And you’re like, nope, they just ate weed. So, um, they’re just 

Will: incredibly common.

Yeah. Relatively common. And 

Dr. Rachel Courville: I would just like to thank the government in a way, um, at least in Illinois, since, uh, legalizing weed, um, it is so much easier to do my job. Because, uh, when I say, Hey, I think your dog ate weed before it was legal. They say, no, it didn’t. I don’t have any at my house. And you’re like, you And now people are much more forthcoming with that [00:55:00] information and I’m very happy about it.

Will: Oh, that’s a good point. That’s a good point. All right. What else? Do you have anything else? Any other interesting? 

Dr. Rachel Courville: I know I do. I, uh. There was one that I saw that I, I made, of course we have, you know, your chocolate ingestion, your stuff like that. And, and some of these things, if it’s a foreign body, like a big sock have to go to surgery and get removed.

But one of my favorites that I had recently was, a medium to large sized dog. And, um, this woman brought her dog and goes, she ate my husband’s golf glove. And I was like, Okay. All right. We can, you know, how long was this? This is like 30 minutes ago. I’m like, okay, we’ve got time. We could figure this out.

And she goes, she usually shreds things to pieces. So what if it, what if we don’t need to make her vomit? What if it gets stuck? And I’m like, yeah, we don’t, we don’t really feel like risking that. I’m, I’m a very cautious bet. And so, uh, we made this dog vomit. I’m very glad we did because there are chunks that were big enough to cause a problem.

Um, but this dog ate off. Every. Single. Little. Finger. Of [00:56:00] the glove, and I could reconstruct 

Kristin: it. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Like their french fries or something. Yeah, exactly! Just the tastiest little french fries ever. And it was so cute, cause the mom, uh, cause it was her husband’s, uh, glove, and she goes, I don’t even like Golf, and she just, you know, she was so mad about the golf club, uh, 

Will: but yeah.

Must be never a dull moment as a veterinarian. 

Kristin: Have you ever, in fact, seen a dog eat someone’s homework? 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Ooh, uh, I, I do have a friend with a dog who loves to rip paper. That’s about as far as I’ve gotten. Could that paper possibly be homework? Yes, but um, also Usually it’s a matter of giving said dog that paper.

So, uh, so yeah Most homework 

Will: is now on an iPad. 

Kristin: Yeah, now it’s all digital, so I guess it can’t be used anymore. You haven’t had a dog eat a phone. Yeah, 

Dr. Rachel Courville: there you go. a phone, I have seen an airpod though. Thumb drive. And, uh, and with any music through it, [00:57:00] put your ear on his stomach and just like connected to Bluetooth.

Uh, yeah, I’ve seen that. And some of the x rays are some of my favorite things cause, uh, I’ve seen rubber duckies and they show up surprisingly well on x ray. You know exactly what that, what’s in there. Very 

Kristin: distinctive shape. Yep. Yeah 

Will: All right. Well, let’s let’s take uh, one more break and come back with a a story.

Uh, that is actually from a veterinary surgeon

Hey krista who’s making dinner tonight? Not it. It’s me again. Yeah I just, I’m not good at it. Neither am I. It’s just like, you can’t even really consider what I normally make to be like a meal. Yeah. 

Kristin: One night you made biscuits for dinner. That’s true. It was the whole dinner. But no more. And you burned them.

Will: But we have 

Kristin: every plate. That’s 

Will: true. Thank goodness. It’s great. It’s America’s Best Value Meal Kit. It’s 25 percent cheaper than grocery shopping. Pretty good. Yeah. And, and also, you’ll love this. Every plate offsets 100 percent of their delivery emissions, and their meals have a, they have [00:58:00] 31 percent lower carbon footprint on average than supermarket meals of the same portion.

I do love that. Yeah, environmentally conscious. It’s great. They got 26 tasty, affordable recipes of sides, lunches, snacks, desserts. It never ends. And also, what sets every plate apart? Alright, they have a lower price point than the other options out there. More affordable. Absolutely. So get 1. 49 per meal by going to everyplate.

com slash podcast and entering code 49KKH. Get started with EveryPlate for just 1. 49 per meal by going to everyplate. com slash podcast and enter code 49KKH.

Okay, we are back with Dr. Rachel Corville, and so, Rachel, we are going to read a story that was sent in by a veterinary surgeon. Can’t wait. So, uh, this is from Frank. He says, I’m a veterinary surgeon. It is a very similar process, uh, uh, to [00:59:00] humans, except we do not have subspecialties. of Surgery Aside from Large and Small Animal.

I perform soft tissue orthopedic and neurosurgeries. This story comes from my second or early third year of residency. We are prepping to perform a thoracic duct ligation and subtotal pericardectomy for an idiopathic patient. Kylothorax. Great. Someone 

Kristin: translate that for me. 

Will: You want to 

Dr. Rachel Courville: explain what that is?

I’ll take a, take a whack at it. Um, so there is, between all your lymph nodes, there are little vessels called lymphatic vessels. Um, and they all kind of congregate in the chest, uh, in one big vessel there, and sometimes what happens is there’s… Something goes wrong with one of those vessels and, uh, it bursts and then you have a chest full of fluid.

Um, good news is not cancer. Bad news is it’s really hard to breathe with that happening. And so, uh, there you can try to treat it conservatively, but sometimes that fails and you gotta go in and… Tie it off. 

Will: Okay. So [01:00:00] that’s what he was doing, and he says, I was tasked with picking up heavy whipping cream to feed the patient prior to surgery to help visualize the lymphatics, and specifically the thoracic duct, because there’s a lot of fat, and that’s fat, fat is, you know, highlights the lymphatics, I guess.

Okay. I showed up the morning of surgery with a can of whipped cream. Made with heavy whipping cream. This is a pressurized can of whipped cream. Like you would shoot in your mouth. Yeah. My mentor just looked at me and said, Damn it, Frank, this is whipped cream. My one Not the same, not the type of cream he’s supposed to get.

My wonderful technician, though, saved the day and picked up heavy whipping cream for us. It’s an 

Kristin: honest mistake. It is 

Will: I have I feel I think he feels bad He said I have never lived this down the rest of residency and to this day when I do surgery I have to text my mentor that I bought the correct thing and she laughs at me Thankfully the dog [01:01:00] did very well.

I tell the story to my interns and staff and They just think it’s great. Have a good laugh at my expense. I’m glad we can all laugh at your story Frank 

Kristin: Thank you. I think we’ve done the same thing when cooking, you know the first time we had to get Whipping cream. Oh, yeah. You’re at the store and you’re like, what is the difference between these things?

Will: Yeah. Well, thank you for that story. You can all, anybody listening, you can send your stories to knockknockhighathuman content. com. Rachel Corville, Dr. Corville, thank you so much for joining us. It’s really been a pleasure. I want, I want to make sure you tell people where to find you because we could all use a little bit more vet med content in our 

Dr. Rachel Courville: life.

Aw, thank you guys so much for having me, and I’m mainly on TikTok and Instagram, so you can find me there. I try to make funny content and educational content, so for pre vet students, pet parents, everybody who could use a little, a little bit more vet med in their life. 

Will: And that’s Bella Vette, 

Dr. Rachel Courville: right? [01:02:00] Yep, Bella Vette DVM on TikTok, er, sorry, on Instagram, and then Bella Vette on TikTok.


Will: and Bella is the name of your dog? Yes, she 

Dr. Rachel Courville: is the name of my little half blind rescue dog, and so her name is Bella and I’m her vet. 

Will: And do you have any anything you want to tell pet owners? Any messages, any advice? 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Just tell us your dog ate wheat. That’s totally honest And

then I guess the only other thing, grapes are toxic. A lot of people don’t know that. A lot of people know about Chocolate, but grapes and, uh, and some other things. The ASPCA has a great toxic plant and, uh, food list, so if anyone ever needs it. Oh, 

Will: good to know. Perfect. And then, and next time, if, um, uh, we talk to a veterinarian, we’re gonna get the low down of how on earth you get a cat to eat pills.

Yeah. Yeah. It still happens. Or 

Kristin: medications. 

Dr. Rachel Courville: Sounds impossible. It’s a bit of a challenge [01:03:00] sometimes. You give it weed. I guess. Yeah, 

Will: they’ll not advice. All right.

Well, thanks again. Dr. Corville, it was a pleasure talking with you. Thanks for coming on.

Do you feel like you’re a better pet owner now? Um, 

Kristin: I am not a pet owner, remember? You are a pet owner. I am a 

Will: pet owner. You’re just along for the ride. 

Kristin: That’s right. It’s your 

Will: dog. Yes. And uh, I knew the grape thing. Yeah. I knew that. I, I know grape Well, mainly because like, you know, your mom is 

Kristin: like dog.

Extraordinary. I just learned it from my 

Will: mom, like a good drainer and everything. Yeah. Um, so no grapes and like onions are another one. Yeah. 

Kristin: That’s the thing. Basically, just maybe don’t give your 

Will: dog dog food. I don’t know. Yeah, we’re not gonna tell you what to do, but because I 

Dr. Rachel Courville: We 

Kristin: don’t know either but that’s that’s what seems the simplest.


Will: don’t need a bunch of comments. Yeah. All right, don’t get [01:04:00] mad at us All right. We we are responsible That was it was so fun to hear the perspective of a Veterinarian. 

Kristin: Yeah, it’s funny how much overlap there is. Man. Similarity. 

Will: I almost feel like I could go to a vet for my medical care. I mean, it makes 

Kristin: sense.

Humans are just animals, 

Will: too. I feel like, like, we could get through it. It’d be fine. Like, I could, no, okay. I, I certainly couldn’t treat animals. I feel like vets would have an easier time treating humans. Yeah. Than humans, than, than human doctors would treating animals. I think so. 

Kristin: I don’t know. Well, we all have to learn a little bit about human biology just in school and stuff, but we don’t all have to learn about animal biology as much, you know.

I don’t know how to 

Will: test this theory. Yeah. Probably nothing ethically 

Kristin: could be done to test that. I don’t think any IRB would approve that. No, I don’t 

Will: think so. I don’t know. It would be interesting. Yeah. Anyway. Tell us what [01:05:00] you think. Yeah, let me know. If you have an IRB that would approve that kind of study, please get in touch with us.

You can email us, knockknockhigh at human content. com, or if you have any suggestions for black market medications, you can also email us too. Please don’t actually, don’t do that. We don’t need that. We don’t need that in my algorithms. Invite that kind of, that kind of stuff. We’re also on all the social media platforms.

Just search us up, as our kids would say. Search it up. Uh, you can also hang out with us and our human content podcast family on Instagram and TikTok at human content pods. Shout out all the wonderful listeners. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being here and being part of our little family. We got here and thanks for leaving feedback and wonderful reviews.

We also like that, uh, if you, uh, subscribe and comment on your favorite podcasting app or on YouTube and give you a shout out like Gab Dvu. View. 

Kristin: Gabe. [01:06:00] 

Will: View Gabe to view g de. Something like that. On YouTube, said, I cannot overstate how much I enjoyed this guest. There isn’t one guest I did not enjoy, but Dr.

Manning was so witty, so quick with her tongue, and for me, as a non native speaker, she was so easy to understand. I mean, she was so to the point with her answers, without losing personality. Very approachable, down to earth, great humor. Thanks a lot. I totally agree. She very eloquent. It was very fun to talk with her.

It was very, very funny, too. Yes. Very funny. Yeah. Full video episodes of this podcast are up every week on my YouTube channel at DGlockenflecken. Patreon! Lots of fun perks, bonus episodes, where we react to medical shows and movies. So we got a little community, a little town, a little tiny growing city.

It’s great. We love it. We love it. We’re active in it, and we have early ad free episode access, interactive Q& A live stream events. What else? All things. 

Kristin: Yeah, little bonus [01:07:00] episodes. Give us some 

Will: suggestions and we’ll think about it. Patreon. com slash glockandfleckin or go to glockandfleckin. com. Speaking of Patreon community perks.

A shout out to all the Jonathans out there, Patrick, Lucia C, Sharon S, Omar, Edward K, Steven G, Roskbox, Jonathan F, Marion W, Mr. Grandaddy, Caitlin C, Brianna L, Dr. J, Chaver W, Jonathan A, Leah D, Kay L, Rachel L, and Anne P. Virtual head nod to you all. Patreon roulette, random shout out to an emergency medicine tier patron.

Shout out to Chris M for being a patron. Hi, Chris! Chris M, I should say. And thank you all for listening. We are your hosts, Will and Kristen Flannery, Glockenflecken. Special thanks to our guests today, Dr. Rachel Corville. Our executive producers are Will Flannery, Kristen Flannery, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke.

Our editor in genier is Jason Portizzo. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi. To learn about our McKnight Kai’s program, disclaimer, and ethics policies, submission, verification, licensing terms, and HIPAA release terms, And yeah, if you read one of them, you have to read all three, by the way, [01:08:00] that’s, that’s, that’s the only way to do it.

You can go to Glockenflecken. com or reach out. Don’t just read those HIPAA release terms. All right. You got to read the program disclaimer and ethics policy as well. I know some of you are doing that. That’s not okay. And you’re just ignoring the submission verification of licensing terms. You can’t do that.

You can’t do, uh, you can go to Glockenflecken. com or reach out to us at human, knock, knock high at human content. com with any questions, concerns. Or medical jokes. Knock Knock High is a human content


Goodbye. Hey Kristen, do you! That, that’s really nice. And Work Life Balance. 

Kristin: Yeah, because you have Jonathan to help do all your clinical documentation and stuff. [01:09:00] 

Will: I’m also not willing to share my Jonathan though. 

Kristin: Well, no. People ask. That would, that’s too much 

Will: to ask. That’s too much. But I need Jonathan because I’ve got all this other stuff going on, right?

That’s right. Social media, I’ve got the podcast, family life. Yeah. Ophthalmology, it’s just, there’s so much to do. Exactly. But if you don’t have a Jonathan? There’s DAX. Yes. Yeah. Nuance Dragon Ambient Experience, or DAX. It helps reduce administrative tasks with clinical documentation that writes itself. 79 percent of physicians say their work life balance improved with DAX.

That’s better than your med school grades. Oh, yep, you may be right there. To learn more about the Nuance Dragon Ambient Experience, or DAX, visit nuance. com slash discover DAX. That’s N U A N C E dot com slash discover D A X.